Second ferment etc

[danlolasdad]

Hello I'm new here. About 2 years ago Nov 2017. I picked and pressed apples from a few local orchards all due to be cut down [emoji24]. I made approximately 410 litres of cider. Once in the fermenter I added campden and lids for 24 hrs then champagne yeast and covered with cloth for 24 hrs to let yeast activate sealed the fermenters and fitted airlocks.

All the fermenters bubbled for weeks first pretty aggressively they sounded so cool in the spare room at night [emoji16] and then they all slowed down to a stop after approximately a month or so there was still some random activity here and there but they all stopped.

Earlier that year in May I ended up in hospital for two weeks with what turned out to be a spinal stroke but that wasn't correcly diagnosed until August when I had another 4 weeks in hospital after the birth of my son. I was struggling to walk and had treatment for the stroke too late. I lost my day job and I also had my own small welding business which I has to wind up. A period of depression occured and some turmoil for my family. Needless to say the cider was forgotten about.

Today 2 years later after lots of Neuro rehab and self determination and help massive help from my wife and close friends I'm back I'm with a person trainer twice a week and everything is great.

Yesterday I took a chance on doing something with the cider based on a YouTube video. I prepared two lots of fruit #1 Oranges and Raisins I boiled in pure apple juice and added sugar 500g. #2 Blueberries blackberries and strawberries boiled in pure apple juice and added sugar 500g.
The plan was to transfer 40 litres to 8 1gal demijohns.
This is complete now as of last night. I tested the cider and determined I had 6.04 ABV before transferring into the jars onto the fruit mixes which had cooled. The taste is tarty and bitter not all the apples were eaters the majority we're cooking apples and were massive. I tried to keep an even mix going during pressing. I have other vids and pics to dig out I'll do that later

I'd like to hear people's opinions regarding the remaining cider in the fermenters and the job I did last night. Thanks for taking the time to read I know it's long winded

Regards
Dan

 

[RPh_Guy]

Welcome to HBT!
Sorry to hear about your health issues.

What's your goal for this cider? Do you want it to be sweet? Carbonated?

The yeast may be dead after 2 years, so the sugar/fruit you added may not ferment.

 

[danlolasdad]

Thanks. I'd like it sweeter and carbonated. I think you are right about the yeast. Can I do anything to kick start them or did I waste my time[emoji16]. Should I add yeast again[emoji848]

I ordered 6 x 25L Carboys today so I'll have something better to transfer the other batches into.I couldn't get pictures to work what's the best way now via Android phone . I haven't used Tapatalk in yonks

 

[RPh_Guy]

You should probably add some yeast to ferment all the sugar you put in there. Proper rehydration is important.

You have 4 basic options for a sweet carbonated cider:
1. Naturally carbonate and pasteurize
2. Naturally carbonate and add a non-fermentable sweetener
3. Stabilize, sweeten, and force carbonate
4. Sweeten and refrigerate

To add a picture use the "upload a file" button when making a post.

 

[danlolasdad]

You should probably add some yeast to ferment all the sugar you put in there. Proper rehydration is important.

You have 4 basic options for a sweet carbonated cider:
1. Naturally carbonate and pasteurize
2. Naturally carbonate and add a non-fermentable sweetener
3. Stabilize, sweeten, and force carbonate
4. Sweeten and refrigerate

To add a picture use the "upload a file" button when making a post.

Ok I'll add hydrated champagne yeast in the morning to the demijohns . 4g per 5L demijohn sound ok?
Is it ready to bottle when fermentation finishes?
I plan to use 2L plastic bottles for sparkling water as I've been saving them they should handle carbonation. What do you suggest here? Test gravity add sugar to bottles for carbo or depending on taste use stevia and bottle for still cider? Am I understanding that correctly?
I added some photos to the OP using my web browser.

Regarding carbonation and sweetening of bottles. Option 2 is the easiest for me. I'm not equipped to refrigerate all my cider. Pasteurization and forced carbonation are not an option either at this time. I'm concentrated on the cider in the demijohns at this point. My 25L carboys are due for delivery sometime today. I might start another thread for those. I need to free up the spare bedroom. I have a garden shed all insulated and ready to store the cider there instead.

 

[RPh_Guy]

4g per 5L demijohn sound ok?

Yep, that's plenty.

Is it ready to bottle when fermentation finishes?

Assuming no off flavors, yep.

I plan to use 2L plastic bottles for sparkling water as I've been saving them they should handle carbonation. What do you suggest here? Test gravity add sugar to bottles for carbo or depending on taste use stevia and bottle for still cider? Am I understanding that correctly?

Measure s.g. with a hydrometer. It should be around 1.000 if fermentation is complete.

Decide how much Stevia you want by adding some to a sample and then use a little math to scale that to the whole batch.

I would recommend batch priming rather than trying to prime and sweeten individual bottles. A priming sugar calculator helps calculate the amount of sugar needed for carbonation. Personally I like my cider with 2.6-2.9 volumes CO2, which is a moderate level of carbonate.

Dissolve the priming sugar and stevia in hot water and add it to a second vessel (e.g. a bottling bucket), and then gently rack the cider on top with tubing angled to create a whirlpool. Then you can proceed to bottling.

Or, if you want to figure out how to handle individual bottles, that's fine too.

Cheers

 

[danlolasdad]

I get it now so I'll still be using a measure of fermentable priming sugar for carbonation plus non fermentable like stevia to sweeten.

I'll definitely batch prime the next lot I have empty fermenting buckets with taps. I may invest in some bottles and bottling equipment too.

 

[Maylar]

I suggest Xylitol rather than Stevia, it has no aftertaste.

 

[danlolasdad]

I suggest Xylitol rather than Stevia, it has no aftertaste.

Thanks I'll look at getting some [emoji106]

 

[Maylar]

Thanks I'll look at getting some [emoji106]

Be aware though that it's toxic to dogs.

 

[danlolasdad]

Be aware though that it's toxic to dogs.

Good to know thanks

 

[danlolasdad]

Update: So the 8 demijohns are bubbling away bar two that seem to have stopped.
Should I transfer each demijohn one by one to a priming bucket via "auto syphon" before bottling or pour from demijohn through something like a coffee filter to keep liquid free of sediment and fruit?
My spare fermenter buckets have taps so once cider is prepared I can bottle via tap and small funnel.
I'm using 2L plastic sparkling water bottles. I'll be ordering 500ml swingtops when I start bottling the bigger batches.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Putting it through a coffee filter is a great way to aerate, which you definitely don't want to do at bottling.

When transferring, you should transfer only the clear portion, leaving behind the sediment. There's no need to filter, particularly when bottle conditioning.

When doing 1 gal batches, I transfer to another one gallon carboy and use an auto siphon to bottle. ... mainly because my bottling bucket doesn't have a diptube so bottling the last 1/2 gallon is kind of a pain.

Do not use a funnel to bottle. You need to get a bottling wand (with a spring). This will drastically decrease the amount of oxidation/aeration that occurs during bottling. They're very inexpensive. Fully disassemble it for cleaning.

Hope this helps. Cheers!

 

[danlolasdad]

Thanks for the reply. It's my first time bottling. I checked out the wand you mentioned with spring that's cool so gonna order one today. Thanks for the advice [emoji106]

 

[danlolasdad]

Hi everyone I haven't had a chance to do bottling yet.
I checked the cider there and the fruit pieces in the first demijohn to stop fermenting has all sunk to the bottom is that normal?
The fruit in the others is still at the top. I was wondering if perhaps this indicates something abnormal. Thanks in advance.

 

[CKuhns]

That's what happens to fruit when pretty much done giving up its flavor. Looks like what I would expect to see.

 

[RPh_Guy]

The fruit drops when the CO2 bubbles clinging to the fruit dissolve back into the cider. This happens naturally over time but is facilitated by temperature cycling and/or "cold crashing".

 

[danlolasdad]

Thanks for the replies. I am busy with training and work. I'll hopefully get time to prime and bottle the demijohns soon and start the other batches on second ferment.

 

[danlolasdad]

Hello I hope everyone has been keeping safe. I'm in Ireland if your commenting on this post can you mention your location please.
The cider at the start of this thread is all bottled now and carbonating too. 6.4% and tastes quite good the strawberry batch required some back sweetening the orange required a bit more we got a bit tipsy from sampling all day
I have all my other cider started on second ferment 300+ litres. I have a 25l batch that started with 6.14% ABV I added 6kg of sugar and a turbo yeast to make some rocket fuel it's an experiment for fun if nothing else. I'll update more details in a few days hopefully
I have moved it all to an insulated garden shed with new linoleum floor so as to free up the spare room.
I may need a method to heat the shed or will I just add a vent?

 

[CKuhns]

USA Minnesota - GREAT Fermenation shed!!

Temperature variations play a pretty important role in how your cider turns out wide swings in temperature can in some yeasts cases throw some off flavors. It really depends on the yeast used. I tend to try to keep my cider ferments relatively stable and cool 55 Deg F or so (roughly 12.5 C if I did my conversion correctly).