Second brewday fast approaching. Suggestions?

[jm21]

Last time I did the following and posted in the BIAB forum. Thinking there's more activity on this section and I'm definitely a beginner so will try posting here:

24l batch size
6.5kg (14.35lbs) australian 2 row
20g (.7oz) chinook at 60min
20g cascade at 5min
20g willamette at burnout

Split it into 4 containers and then add 30g (1oz) dry-hop
1. no dry-hop
2. 30g cascade
3. 30g willamette
4. 30g chinook

It's bottled and carbonating right now. From sampling the FG test I think I will love the chinook one, like the willamette, and tolerate the other 2. None of them came out horrible, just not that great, possibly due to dry-hopping the cascade and willamette too early.

So my fiance has disallowed me buying more stuff until I finish off the old. So I want to use as much of possible of what I have:

Loads of Aussie 2-row malted barley
100g citra
50g chinook
50g willamette
50g cascade

Figure I'll try making a couple variations of a light IPA. I want to give the Willamette and Cascade hops a second try, adding them later, and I want to see what a difference those 5 and 0 additions of hops made. To me, it seems like barely any, maybe because it takes me a long time to fully cool the wort. The control with no dry-hop had zero hop aroma and I could barely taste any hop flavor.

So recipe I'm thinking of:
30l batch size (7.92gal), split into 5 6l containers (I have a 15 gallon kettle, glad I bumped up to the bigger size now as I would probably drink a 5gal batch in a few weeks or so. Only got about two cases of beer from a 6gal batch..does that sound about right?)
8kg (about 17.6lbs)
70g citra (2.5oz) at 60 minutes for bittering
20g (.7oz) cascade at 60 minutes
Might even try a 90-minute boil
dry-hop with 30g (1oz) of each hop I have
1. control
2. 30g willamette
3. 30g cascade
4. 30g citra
5. 30g chinook

Save the remaining 20g chinook and 20g willamette (these were my favorites from the last batch) for dry-hopping the control after I've had a chance to taste it. My last batch used 30g of each so I want to keep the amount the same to make these as similar as possible to my last batch, just changing when the hops are added.

My main goal at this point is to learn as much about making beer as possible as quickly as possible, hence the many different fermenters. Learned a ton from my first batch doing that. I wasn't planning to dry-hop the Chinook at all aat first but it turned out to be my favorite. If I had just made one batch I might never have tried it. I bought it to use as a bittering hop.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Build]

Have you tried making a SMASH? It's a good way to learn the nuances of hops/malt.

I would do the Chinook early and save the citra and cascade for late additions. The bittering doesn't differentiate the hops as much as late additions. If you want a lot of flavor, add a 30-60g at 5-0. If you whirlpool, add a lot there too. There are a lot of addition possibilities, and none necessarily wrong.

I think your 6 gallon batch should have yielded 9-10 12oz 6 packs.

 

[jm21]

Have you tried making a SMASH? It's a good way to learn the nuances of hops/malt.

I would do the Chinook early and save the citra and cascade for late additions. The bittering doesn't differentiate the hops as much as late additions. If you want a lot of flavor, add a 30-60g at 5-0. If you whirlpool, add a lot there too. There are a lot of addition possibilities, and none necessarily wrong.

I think your 6 gallon batch should have yielded 9-10 12oz 6 packs.

Last time I did 20g at 5-0 and the container with no dry-hopping had absolutely zero hop flavor or aroma that I could detect. I don't know whether it's because I am used to hoppy beers and can't detect the more subtle flavors or because it takes so long for me to cool the wort the whole way that it's basically turns the 5-0 additions into bittering hops. Was thinking to focus more on dry-hopping and leave off the 5-0 additions entirely for this one.

Was thinking citra for bittering because I have 100g of citra and only 50g of chinook and I REALLY liked the chinook for dry-hopping. The moment I opened the chinook package and smelled them I was in love.

Hm. Got closer to 8.5 6-packs. Not too far off. I think maybe because the last bit near the trub is hard to siphon and by splitting it into multiple containers you have that problem multiple times instead of just once.

EDIT:
Reading about no-chill brewing and my suspicions seem to be confirmed. If it takes too long to cool the wort all the hops basically go to bittering and you get very little hoppy flavor.

But I did essentially a no-chill and the one that was properly dry-hopped turned out quite nice. Ended up more like an IPA than the pale ale I was hoping for but that's OK.

Will be interesting to experiment with this. If I could do it no-chill I'd save a huge amount of time. Was up until like 1am trying to get things cooled down last time. I might use my IC first to get it down to 90 or so but that's around where it stalls out.

EDIT:
I would be find chilling the wort if I had ice, but my freezer is the size of a small suitcase and full. Haven't found any place to buy ice in the small Chinese city I live in. Would love to buy a small freezer but not sure I can sell the fiance on it.

 

[Build]

That's interesting. Before I did hop whirlpooling, I got lots of flavor from my late additions. I also didn't dry hop then. Dry hopping to increase aroma will enhance the perception of flavor with good results.

What's the water temperature flowing through your IC? If you can get the wort temp down to 82-85C or so, you can add the hops, then give it all the time it needs to cool further. I understand about the freezer and ice. Have you tried the kettle in a cold water bath/fan?

How do you control fermentation temperatures?

 

[jm21]

That's interesting. Before I did hop whirlpooling, I got lots of flavor from my late additions. I also didn't dry hop then. Dry hopping to increase aroma will enhance the perception of flavor with good results.

What's the water temperature flowing through your IC? If you can get the wort temp down to 82-85C or so, you can add the hops, then give it all the time it needs to cool further. I understand about the freezer and ice. Have you tried the kettle in a cold water bath/fan?

How do you control fermentation temperatures?

I've been doing research on the no-chill method and seems I've ran into a similar problem as a lot of the no-chill guys. The late hop additions just don't apparently seem to work with long chill times. Still reading but haven't found someone with a great solution yet.

I can get my wort down to 35c (about 95f) but then it's basically impossible to get lower without ice or a massive waste of water. Part of that is my IC is pretty small for the batches I'm doing and part of it is the water is not that cold. I would guess maybe 50-60f but haven't taken a reading yet.

I can probably make about 2 quarts of ice, tops, and I don't think that would be enough to drop the temp another 30 degrees in time on a large batch.

The batch with late additions but no dry-hopping smelled pretty bad actually. No hop aroma. I thought it was infected because of the aroma but turned out to just be very bland.

the one I dry-hopped with Chinook was actually quite decent. Tasted like a really light lagunitas IPA.

So I would say dry-hopping has a pretty dramatic effect on flavor from my experience. Definitely not just the aroma, though it definitely affects that as well.

For fermentation temps I set the AC at the lowest setting (17c) in the second bedroom. We've got no AC in the main living area, just the bedrooms, so it works out OK. Keep the 2nd bedroom door open and the bedroom stays at fermentation temps and the living areas stay livable. The lowest setting on the AC puts stuff low down in the room at 16c which is just low enough for pitching.

 

[jm21]

So as my fiance was grinding the 2-row and I was filling up the kettle and getting ready for the mashing, I realized my kettle was too small for the batch I had planned. My fermenters each contain 6l so knocked the batch from 30l down to 6l, 7kg of barley, 50g of citra hops for bittering.

Did a little finer grind than last time but still taking me forever to convert the starches to sugars and coming up a bit short on the OG. Takes maybe 3-4 hours so it seems like I must be doing something wrong as other people are doing it in an hour.

Using the no-chill method. Measured the water temps and the tap water is way hotter than I thought, almost 90F in the afternoon, so not really a chance in hell of cooling things off without ice and I don't have and can't make anywhere near enough ice. The coldest I can get a room is just about pitching temps.

 

[Northbank]

For fermentation temps I set the AC at the lowest setting (17c) in the second bedroom. We've got no AC in the main living area, just the bedrooms, so it works out OK. Keep the 2nd bedroom door open and the bedroom stays at fermentation temps and the living areas stay livable. The lowest setting on the AC puts stuff low down in the room at 16c which is just low enough for pitching.

I kinda wonder if you could bring your AC temps up and use a swamp cooler to reduce the temps of your wort ...... 17c is pretty cool to live in A fan, a tub and a towel .... it might help you get towards pitching temps a little quicker.

 

[jm21]

I kinda wonder if you could bring your AC temps up and use a swamp cooler to reduce the temps of your wort ...... 17c is pretty cool to live in A fan, a tub and a towel .... it might help you get towards pitching temps a little quicker.

Haha, both of us come from relatively cool places and when I was taking temperature readings I realized that our "cool"/"cold" apartment was about 80F. A few years ago that would seem like a hot summer day to me.

My understanding was swamp coolers don't work well in humid places, and this is one of the most humid places on the planet (twice the rainfall of Seattle, yay!). I have no idea how running the AC a lot affects humidity though...it feels less humid inside but I have no idea how to measure humidity. No bathtub either. Fan might be a good idea.

 

[jm21]

So it's been two weeks now. Started dry-hopping and tested the brew. Slightly hoppy with a decent wack of bitterness at the back end.

The last time I did it the last minute hop additions then taking too long to chill gave it a really bad aroma and pretty off taste. This is much better and somewhat hopeful for a nice IPA-ish beer using no chill.

I had the temperature too high for part of the mash but doesn't seem to have had any real effect on the flavor that I can tell. I mean really high, like slightly above sparging temperatures. Makes me wonder why people do BIAB at lower temps...it's been taking me forever to reach anywhere near the OG I want...seems like higher temps would extract the starches more easily and they'd still be low enough that the tannins and what-not shouldn't come out.

 

[FatDragon]

Makes me wonder why people do BIAB at lower temps...it's been taking me forever to reach anywhere near the OG I want...seems like higher temps would extract the starches more easily and they'd still be low enough that the tannins and what-not shouldn't come out.

No. Amylase enzymes need a certain temperature range to convert starch to fermentable sugars. Follow and study the processes before you start making significant changes to them.

 

[jm21]

had a little bit of a problem with some bottles not carbonating as well...kinda sugary so must have been at too high or too low temps during the carbonation process. Will have to control that better next time. But overall pretty decent beers. The no-chill method seems to work OK and the dry hopping definitely adds a lot more than aroma.

Didn't bag my hops and at 50g per 6l there was a lot of hop scum and detritus. Kind of a pain to siphon. Had to keep clearing the filter.

No more beer brewing until I get back from vacation.