Scottish Wee Heavy Recipe, what do you think?

[solbes]

2. I see many people using Golden Promise and Marris Otter. Should I just stick with Golden Promise or do a combination of both?

I already stated that I used GP in my Wee Heavy, but thought I would throw out a little more insight. I've used GP twice, the other brew being a clone attempt of Surly Furious IPA. Great results both times. I think it has a cleaner and sweeter taste than Marris Otter. It is more malty versus your standard 2 row pale. You want your Wee Heavy/Scotch ale to be a malt bomb IMO.

I have a little more experience with Marris Otter. Brewed an English Bitter, an Irish Red, and a RIS with it. It is very malty like GP, but gives more of a bread or biscuit flavor. For my 50th brew, I have a massive Barley wine planned with Marris Otter grain and Marris Otter LME (filled to the kettle brim). Can't wait to find out how that one turns out a year from now when I start popping bottles.

Best advice is to try both. You are brewing a Scottish beer here, so I say go with Scottish GP malt. Then try some english brews with Marris Otter and you can formulate your own opinions.

 

[stpug]

Interesting stuff about Golden Promise. Learn something new about beer everyday! If I was to do a parti gyle, how would I be able to get roughly 5 gallons of wort through my first running. I traditionally batch sparge, so would I have to mash with more water for a longer time?

Either the no sparge method of using a thinner mash; or the hybrid method of after your standard ratio mash rest you would sparge up to approx 5 gallon runnings; or 1st plus 2nd runnings to get 5 gallons. Parti gyle is not a perfect science and you WILL need to be flexible on brewday. You might be shy some volumes on one or both of your beers (maybe you'll only get 4 gallons of each). You'll want to do some recalculation during your process to adjust for bitterness based on new volume, or boil time to hit a specific gravity.

You can even collect your runnings in separate pots and blend them together in your final brew pots so that you can more accurately hit the gravities you're trying to achieve. This is something they do at Fullers for their ESB and London Pride (also parti gyle).

I would calculate your brewday and then give yourself an additional 3 hour buffer. As long as you're prepared for it and have fun with it, it'll work out fine in the end.

 

[roastquake]

The four gallons was my first runnings and some of the second runnings from the batch sparge. Then I used a portion of that as the mash water in the second mash.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Okay so after I have done some more research I am also cutting out the smoked malt. I'd like to stay close to the traditional recipe but still be a wee bit different lol. I've read that Wyeast 1728 is know for giving a "smokey" flavor to the beer, so I'll see if that brings it thorough. Just three more questions and I might actually be able to be happy with this recipe.

1. Is roasted barley a traditional grain for this brew? Also if so how much?

2. I see many people using Golden Promise and Marris Otter. Should I just stick with Golden Promise or do a combination of both?

3. And lastly, I'd like to do a party gile with this brew, or a second beer from the grain. What are your recommendations, techniques or experiences, to doing a party gile?

I cant thank you all enough. I think I'll be doing this much more often. Probably would have saved my Belgian Pale Ale a couple months ago.

IMO "traditional" is a bit of garbage because brewing, malting, and fermenting techniques have changed leaps and bounds in just a short 100 years, let alone longer. Traditional Wee Heavies would have had a smoke flavor because malting techniques weren't nearly as clean and precise as they are now a days and smoke would have definitely drifted into the malting room. A lot of very traditional recipes take this into account by adding smoked malts or smoking things such as peat or juniper under store bought malt. This is also why we don't need to do all of the "rests" that were very common. Our malts are simply better.

Sorry to play devil's advocate, but I felt inclined. Whatever you end up doing, I'm sure you'll be satisfied as long as you don't go overboard or get an infection. I've never gotten "smokey" flavors from Scottish yeast. Maybe you could infer it that way, but I get way more raisin, currant, warm alcohol and yeast funk than anything else.

 

[Cider123]

When you read the term "wee heavy" somewhere, does the voice in your head say it in a heavy Scottish "fat bastard" accent?

 

[TheHairyHop]

Lol maybe

 

[roastquake]

haha you almost have to!

 

[tahmores]

Hey everyone. I'm brewing this weekend. Thought I'd give an update on the recipe I'm going to use and my plan for brew day.
Here is my updated recipe...

5.5 Gallon All Grain batch / 90 min boil / Caramelize first running

8 lbs of Golden Promise
8 lbs of Marris Otter
1 lbs of Caramel Malt 120L
12 oz of Aromatic (Munich) Malt
8 oz of Caramel Malt 40L
4 oz of Roasted Barley

1 oz of Nugget @ 60 min 13% AA

Scottish Ale 1728 Wyeast

OG=1.090
IBU=34
Color=22L

Brew day:
On brew day I plan to brew with a few other. One which will be assisting me. I plan to caramelize the first runnings by boiling them separately for 60 mins. I will still do a batch sparge and try to come up to 6~6.5 gallons (praying for great efficiency). I'll boil for 90 mins, adding the hops at 60, and the separate caramelized wort when it is done with its 60 min boil. Chill. Transfer. Aerate. And pitch a 2000 ml starter.

Fermentation:
My normal is 3 weeks primary, 2 weeks secondary, cold crash 2 days, and keg. I will try and follow this schedule according to my gravity readings.

Final notes:
EXCITED TO BREW!

So what do you guys think?

http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/scottish-wee-heavy-10

 

[solbes]

Looks pretty good. Like that you are kettle carmelizing the first runnings. My only comment is that this will come out pretty dark with the kettle carmelizing, 90 minute boil (both of which are traditional), plus the 16 oz of C120, 4 oz of RB, and 8 oz of C40. If you want it dark, then keep it as is. Should taste really great!

 

[DSmith]

I'd caramelize a gallon of your first runnings, not all. I did a wee heavy last weekend that has fermented in about 5 days from 1.090 to 1.018 with wyeast 1728 at 61F carboy temperature (ale pitch per Mr Malty), 99% Golden Promise, 1% English Roasted Barley. The caramelization probably affected the fermentability and I'd be concerned that caramelizing all the first runnings and having specialty malts in the grain bill would end up with a high final gravity.

After you take off your 1 gallon, still sparge to your normal pre-boil volume for a 90 minute boil beacuse the caramelized wort won't be a significant volume anymore. Plan for the caramelization to take 90 minutes.

 

[stpug]

I'd caramelize a gallon of your first runnings, not all. I did a wee heavy last weekend that has fermented in about 5 days from 1.090 to 1.018 with wyeast 1728 at 61F carboy temperature (ale pitch per Mr Malty), 99% Golden Promise, 1% English Roasted Barley. The caramelization probably affected the fermentability and I'd be concerned that caramelizing all the first runnings and having specialty malts in the grain bill would end up with a high final gravity.

After you take off your 1 gallon, still sparge to your normal pre-boil volume for a 90 minute boil beacuse the caramelized wort won't be a significant volume anymore. Plan for the caramelization to take 90 minutes.

For future reference for myself:
Your batch size was ~5 gallons, correct?
Also, what volume would you say you reduced your 1 gallon of carmelized runnings to? 2 cups? Quart? Half gallon?

I really like your simple grainbill. I'm interested in any tasting notes you have when tasting the samples since the actual beer probably won't be ready for another year

 

[DSmith]

For future reference for myself:
Your batch size was ~5 gallons, correct?
Also, what volume would you say you reduced your 1 gallon of carmelized runnings to? 2 cups? Quart? Half gallon?

I really like your simple grainbill. I'm interested in any tasting notes you have when tasting the samples since the actual beer probably won't be ready for another year

I take no credit for the recipe, I followed this recipe as close as possible (except 90 minute boil, and subbed in UK Golding hops):

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=8071.0

The caramelization reduced to about 10% of the original volume and needed a lot of attention and extra heat for about the last 10 minutes. I bought a silicone spatula for my brewing box for this to really keep the wort from sitting on the bottom of the pot too long.

I'm planning on leaving it in the primary for 3 weeks, 2 months secondary near freezing, and bottle conditioning it for a long time.

 

[stpug]

I take no credit for the recipe, I followed this recipe as close as possible (except 90 minute boil, and subbed in UK Golding hops):

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=8071.0

The caramelization reduced to about 10% of the original volume and needed a lot of attention and extra heat for about the last 10 minutes. I bought a silicone spatula for my brewing box for this to really keep the wort from sitting on the bottom of the pot too long.

I'm planning on leaving it in the primary for 3 weeks, 2 months secondary near freezing, and bottle conditioning it for a long time.

Thanks for the link. I love the simplicity of the recipe which, to me, means it comes down to the process and care you put into making the beer.

The caramelization reduction is impressive. I never thought you'd boil down 1 gallon of super-rich wort to a mere 12 ounces of caramel goodness, but I guess that explains where the depth of caramel notes comes from considering there is none in the grainbill. Was it as thick as I'm envisioning after the reduction?

This might just push me to getting one going this winter for next winter
Cheers

 

[DSmith]

Was it as thick as I'm envisioning after the reduction?

Probably not as thick as you're thinking. It did take some hot wort from the boil kettle to thin it out and transfer it to the boil kettle.

I had never done this before, so to prep, I cooked a caramelized maple syrup pecan pie the day before with the same pot/spatula. I reduced 2 cups of maple syrup to about 1-1/4 cups. The end consistency was about the same as the wort caramelization and was a delicious dry-run...

 

[DavidJP]

I take no credit for the recipe, I followed this recipe as close as possible (except 90 minute boil, and subbed in UK Golding hops):

Traquair house uses East kent goldings so you'd be more authentic than the Skotrat clone recipe, but i guess you probably already knew that.

http://www.traquair.co.uk/content/traquair-house-brewery

 

[Newsman]

I'm going to HAVE to give this a shot. I love big, sweet beers and this sounds like the ticket à