Scottish Wee Heavy Recipe, what do you think?

[tahmores]

Hello everyone,

This is my first thread on Homebrewtalk so I hope I do this correctly.

I wanted to brew a Scottish Wee Heavy for the Winter time and started putting a recipe together and was wondering what the community thought or if you had any pointers. I'd love it if it came out like Old Chub or something similar. Here is what I have so far...

5.5 Gallon All Grain batch / 90 min boil

13.5 lbs of 2-Row Brewers Malt
1 lbs of Caramel Malt 120L
1 lbs of Carapils Malt
12 oz of Munich Malt 10L
8 oz of Caramel Malt 40L
8 oz of Special B
4 oz of Black Malt
3.5 oz of Smoked Malt
2 oz of Peated Malt

1 oz of Nugget @ 60 min 14% AA

Scottish Ale 1728 Wyeast

 

[BlackGoat]

Thats a lot of carapils. You also have two types of smoked malt, peated and smoked... so be sure that you want 5.5oz of the smoky stuff. A little goes a long way with smoked malts. I'm not sure Special B belongs in a wee heavy, but I don't think its too out of character.

 

[palys2]

If you want the smoke flavor, 5.5 oz won't be too much. I did a Ten Penny Ale clone, the first batch with 3 oz of German Smoked Malt. It didn't have enough smoke flavor. I upped the second batch to 6 oz, and the smokiness was spot on and incredibly drinkable.

 

[centralpabrewer]

I would drop the special B and add a few oz of roasted barley

 

[PastorofMuppets]

There is zero chance I wouldnt drink this beer
unless you suck at brewing but thats a different thread.

seriously why so much carapils?

 

[TheHairyHop]

Too many malts imo, you won't taste them. If you're going to add peated, then don't bother with smoked. That much peated will completely drown out that much smoked. I would just take that cara and add a pound or two to your base malt. You won't need any cara at that point

 

[tahmores]

Thanks everyone! This is exactly the input I am looking for.

In my research I have read that carapils will help with head retention on a beer and that typically about 5% is a good ratio to use. That's the reason I have 1 lbs of carapils, its 5% of my recipe.

As for the smoke flavor, I'm not looking for a "overpowering" amount of smokiness, like a smoked porter, just a hint. I have never used peated malt, but I have heard of the controversy of whether or not the belong in a scottish ale. Would yall recommend dropping the smoked malt and maybe using 3 oz of peated malt? Should I add roasted barley as well?

The Special B I had seen in a few other recipes, but I agree with yall and will drop that from the recipe.

Keep the comments coming! I also wanted to ask about doing a party gile with this brew. Would this be a good recipe to do it with? And for the second batch can I do it as say a extract and add dme to make a full beer?

Thanks everyone! Cheers!

 

[solbes]

Also agree to go either peated or smoked. I would not do both. Consider using Golden Promise as your base malt. Might as well use the real deal.

Also, consider keeping half the batch for next winter. The Wee Heavy I brewed around this time last year has really turned the corner in the last month or two. Really good brew now, whereas I thought it was okay before.

 

[tahmores]

Also agree to go either peated or smoked. I would not do both. Consider using Golden Promise as your base malt. Might as well use the real deal.

Also, consider keeping half the batch for next winter. The Wee Heavy I brewed around this time last year has really turned the corner in the last month or two. Really good brew now, whereas I thought it was okay before.

I bottled my first two brews before jumping right into kegging lol. But since I have started doing all grain I have really been more impressed by my beer so I wanted to start cellaring some beer. I now have a little setup to bottle from the keg so I can keep a six pack to try the next year. So Ill definatly do that! Was your recipe similar to this one?

 

[PastorofMuppets]

You should also put your patience hat on because i think it will take a minute before this brew really hits a stride.
Make sure you update the thread after you brew.

 

[solbes]

... I now have a little setup to bottle from the keg so I can keep a six pack to try the next year. So Ill definatly do that! Was your recipe similar to this one?

Mine did not use peated or smoked. It has taken on a smoky flavor b/c of the kettle carmelizing process (boiled 1.25 gallons of first wort on stovetop down to around a ~ 1 quart and then added back to main boil). 12 lbs Golden Promise, 1 lb of DME (BIAB kettle was full), 6 oz C120, 3 oz Roasted Barley, hopped to 22 IBU with 60 minute addition only. 90 minute boil. 1.073 OG, 1.017 FG

 

[DavidJP]

I'm sure it would be good but looks a little complicated. Have a look at the traquair house ale recipes floating around. Just base malt, a touch of roasted barley and caramelisation of the first runnings. Makes a great beer.

http://www.traquair.co.uk/content/traquair-house-brewery

http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/recipes/ale/scottish/recipes/10.html

 

[TheHairyHop]

Thanks everyone! This is exactly the input I am looking for.

In my research I have read that carapils will help with head retention on a beer and that typically about 5% is a good ratio to use. That's the reason I have 1 lbs of carapils, its 5% of my recipe.

As for the smoke flavor, I'm not looking for a "overpowering" amount of smokiness, like a smoked porter, just a hint. I have never used peated malt, but I have heard of the controversy of whether or not the belong in a scottish ale. Would yall recommend dropping the smoked malt and maybe using 3 oz of peated malt? Should I add roasted barley as well?

The Special B I had seen in a few other recipes, but I agree with yall and will drop that from the recipe.

Keep the comments coming! I also wanted to ask about doing a party gile with this brew. Would this be a good recipe to do it with? And for the second batch can I do it as say a extract and add dme to make a full beer?

Thanks everyone! Cheers!

I would keep the special b but drop the 40 crystal, but that's just me. If you just want a hint of smoke, add smoked malt. 5 oz might give you what you're looking for. It's a surprisingly mellow malt. Between black and 120 crystal, I wouldn't bother adding roasted barley. Again, just my 2 cents

 

[tahmores]

You should also put your patience hat on because i think it will take a minute before this brew really hits a stride.
Make sure you update the thread after you brew.

I agree. Good beer takes time. What would you recommend as a fermentation time? For most of my ales I do 3 weeks primary, 10 days secondary, and cold crash for two days.

 

[Hopper5000]

THe smoked flavor is supposed to come from the yeast so I wouldn't really include any malt that does that. Personally I like the flavor of carapils but in a beer like this I dunno if it's really appropriate. I would add in maybe a half pound of Honey malt and Aroma malt to help this beer out. You should look up Jamil's recipe for some ideas.

 

[tahmores]

...I'm sure it would be good but looks a little complicated. Have a look at the traquair house ale recipes floating around.

Thanks for the recipe. I was thinking of doing a Scottish Heavy 70/-like this. Seems to be the popular way to do it.

...If you just want a hint of smoke, add smoked malt. 5 oz might give you what you're looking for. It's a surprisingly mellow malt. Between black and 120 crystal, I wouldn't bother adding roasted barley. Again, just my 2 cents

I think your right. Think i'll drop the pleated grain and bump the smoked up to 5 oz.

...I would add in maybe a half pound of Honey malt and Aroma malt to help this beer out. You should look up Jamil's recipe for some ideas.

Wow! Thanks for the recipe's, that's a great resource. Is there much of a difference in Munich malt and Aromatic (munich) malt really?

 

[tahmores]

Here is my updated recipe...

5.5 Gallon All Grain batch / 90 min boil / Caramelize first running

13.5 lbs of Golden Promise
1 lbs of Caramel Malt 120L
12 oz of Carapils Malt
12 oz of Aromatic (Munich) Malt
8 oz of Caramel Malt 40L
5 oz of Smoked Malt
4 oz of Black Malt

1 oz of Nugget @ 60 min 13% AA

Scottish Ale 1728 Wyeast

OG=1.085
IBU=34
Color=24L

 

[Gold_Robber]

I'm sure it would be good but looks a little complicated. Have a look at the traquair house ale recipes floating around. Just base malt, a touch of roasted barley and caramelisation of the first runnings. Makes a great beer.

http://www.traquair.co.uk/content/traquair-house-brewery

http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/recipes/ale/scottish/recipes/10.html

I hope you're right. I brewed a 3G batch about 10 days ago..will bottle in another 10 days. How long do you think I will have to wait ,after bottling, before it is drinkable?

 

[roastquake]

For what it's worth: traditionally, the dextrins in a wee heavy would come from high mash temps rather than carapils malt. An example of Scottish frugality. So, if I where planning on mashing high anyway, I would save the money on the carapils.

 

[roastquake]

I hope you're right. I brewed a 3G batch about 10 days ago..will bottle in another 10 days. How long do you think I will have to wait ,after bottling, before it is drinkable?

My 9% Wee Heavy is good now, 8 months after brewing. It was still kind of hot until my most recent tasting. I plan on giving it out to friends and family for Christmas.

http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/wee-heavy-53/brew-logs

I only added crystal malts because I didn't feel like doing the extra kettle carmelization step

 

[DavidJP]

I hope you're right. I brewed a 3G batch about 10 days ago..will bottle in another 10 days. How long do you think I will have to wait ,after bottling, before it is drinkable?

Benefits from a bit of aging. I have 5 gallons from that recipe thats been 3 weeks in primary and a week in a keg at room temp conditioning, hoping to sample toward the end of Nov.
Last time i brewed this it took a while to get to best condition, if bottling I'd wait at least a month, preferably 2.

 

[tahmores]

For what it's worth: traditionally, the dextrins in a wee heavy would come from high mash temps rather than carapils malt. An example of Scottish frugality. So, if I where planning on mashing high anyway, I would save the money on the carapils.

This is a great point. I think you have convinced me, I'm going to drop the carapils from the grain bill.

 

[BradleyBrew]

I say skip the carapils and just mash high. I would mash in at about 156. Plenty of unfermentables.

 

[Cider123]

I agree that you have the kitchen sink in there right now. I'm sure you believe each malt serves a purpose, but what would end up shining through in spades is the smoke. You could have lots of great flavors in your BBQ sauce, but if you dump in a lot of liquid smoke then that's all you'll taste.

Here may be a big hint for you! If you have a copy of Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles, look on page 124. He has a few hints on making Scottish brews and one of the biggest is not using peat smoked malts to get the smoked flavor one looks for.

 

[40watt]

Peat is for whisky.

 

[tahmores]

Okay so after I have done some more research I am also cutting out the smoked malt. I'd like to stay close to the traditional recipe but still be a wee bit different lol. I've read that Wyeast 1728 is know for giving a "smokey" flavor to the beer, so I'll see if that brings it thorough. Just three more questions and I might actually be able to be happy with this recipe.

1. Is roasted barley a traditional grain for this brew? Also if so how much?

2. I see many people using Golden Promise and Marris Otter. Should I just stick with Golden Promise or do a combination of both?

3. And lastly, I'd like to do a party gile with this brew, or a second beer from the grain. What are your recommendations, techniques or experiences, to doing a party gile?

I cant thank you all enough. I think I'll be doing this much more often. Probably would have saved my Belgian Pale Ale a couple months ago.

 

[tahmores]

Just realized I was spelling it wrong...Parti Gyle.

 

[stpug]

1. I've read that small amounts of roasted barley and/or black patent are traditional ingredients, however they are used in such small amounts (1-2 oz per 5 gallons) I would conclude they are strictly used for color adjustment.

2. Golden Promise is the usual malt used for scotch whisky making, therefore a very modern-day Scottish ingredient. Maris Otter is more of an English grain but perfectly suitable for a wee heavy. All in all, both will yield great results and you're unlikely to notice a difference between the two. Interesting fact: Golden Promise is a more recently (60s or 70s) developed varietal of barley that was created through the process of gamma ray mutation, but I cannot recall the "parent" variety at the moment. Regardless, it's not genetically modified, simply rushed through adaptation

3. This WOULD be a good parti gyle brew, but that's a potentially big undertaking. Regardless, Scottish ales have frequently been brewed parti gyle where the first runnings were 80/-, second runnings were 70/-, and third runnings were 60/-. I would personally add a pound or two of grain after you collect your runnings for your wee heavy, do another saccharification rest, and drain your runnings. After collecting your 2nd beer's runnings you can decide if it should be 80, 70, or 60/- scottish ale. Calculate your one and only hop bittering addition based on the estimated OG of the brew and away you go.

I've used 1728 many times, and while there might be something produced that could be construed as smoke, to me it's not what I'd ever call a "smoky" beer. HOWEVER, that's a good thing in my opinion. You don't want a big sipper beer to be overly smoky.

High mash temperatures, kettle carmelization, moderate attenuating and highly flocculant yeast, small percentage of not-too-dark crystal.... these are the variables I would play with to get the sweet maltiness from a wee heavy.

HTH!

 

[roastquake]

1. Is roasted barley a traditional grain for this brew? Also if so how much?

-Yes. just a few ounces to get to the color you want.

2. I see many people using Golden Promise and Marris Otter. Should I just stick with Golden Promise or do a combination of both?

-Given the choice, I would go with Golden Promise because it's Scottish (I used American pale malt in mine, but that's because I buy in bulk) Someone else may comment on the different flavors you'll get from each, but I understand they are similar.

3. And lastly, I'd like to do a party gile with this brew, or a second beer from the grain. What are your recommendations, techniques or experiences, to doing a party gile?

This is exactly what I did, and wouldn't do it again. the small beer wasn't great. If I do it again, it will be after I work out my efficiency issues, both mine had to have the gravities corrected with sugar and DME. My whole process is documented here:http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/140-wee-heavy-double-mash

 

[tahmores]

...Interesting fact: Golden Promise is a more recently (60s or 70s) developed varietal of barley that was created through the process of gamma ray mutation, but I cannot recall the "parent" variety at the moment. Regardless, it's not genetically modified, simply rushed through adaptation

...I would personally add a pound or two of grain after you collect your runnings for your wee heavy, do another saccharification rest, and drain your runnings. ...

....High mash temperatures, kettle carmelization, moderate attenuating and highly flocculant yeast, small percentage of not-too-dark crystal.... these are the variables I would play with to get the sweet maltiness from a wee heavy.

HTH!

Interesting stuff about Golden Promise. Learn something new about beer everyday! If I was to do a parti gyle, how would I be able to get roughly 5 gallons of wort through my first running. I traditionally batch sparge, so would I have to mash with more water for a longer time?

...This is exactly what I did, and wouldn't do it again. the small beer wasn't great. If I do it again, it will be after I work out my efficiency issues, both mine had to have the gravities corrected with sugar and DME. My whole process is documented here:http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/140-wee-heavy-double-mash

Im glad you posted this! I actually had a look at your recipe yesterday and your comments made me laugh.
"Next time I brew a wee heavy I'll just use extract, not a long ******* double mash, this is supposed to be fun, but today was kind of annoying. "
How were you able to get 4 gallons off your first runnings? Here's my "current" recipe. http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/scottish-wee-heavy-10