Scottish 80/- recipe critique

[EnglishAndy]

Andy,
Thanks for the follow-up. What about the kegged version (which you can adjust to 2.2 vol?) Have you tried it yet? Ed

I actually haven't tried the keg version yet; it was something of a spontaneous decision to open a bottle last night as we were standing right next to a cupboard full of them and you know how temptation is... I'll try the keg next week.

 

[EnglishAndy]

Tried the keg (multiple times, ahem). It's really great, as good as any commercial dark ale of similar character that I've had before. I'll do this one again for sure and WLP028 goes right to the top of my yeast list.

 

[RedlegEd]

Andy,
That beer looks very tempting indeed, but very dark for an Export. I was wondering what you thought would be the flavor difference if you had brewed it without the two chocolate malts? I ran a slightly tweaked version of the recipe through Brewer's Friend minus those two malts (leaving in the Special B for its caramel flavor,) and here's what I get:

EnglishAndy's Scottish Ale 80/- Light

4.00 lb Maris Otter/Golden Promise 43.5 %
3.75 lb Munich 40.8 %
9 oz Oats, Flaked 6.1 %
5 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L 3.4 %
6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L 4.1 %
3 oz Special B Malt 2.0 %

0.8 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.60 %] 60 mins 17.00 IBUs
0.8 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.60 %] 20 mins 10.3 IBUs

SRM: 10.89 (Morey) (yours was 25.3)
IBU: 27.3 (Tinseth)
OG: 1.047
FG: 1.012 (Imperial A31 Tartan Yeast @ 72%AA)

Thanks, Ed.

 

[EnglishAndy]

Without the two dark malts the roasted notes would go away and I think the crystal would come to the fore, and I think you have rather a lot of it at 7.5%. I would reduce that to 5 or 6%. What do you think?

Keeping the Special B down to 2% or lower is, I think, sensible to prevent it overpowering everything else. My intention was for it to act as a 'spice', bringing a background hint rather than being the main event.

Beersmith's color preview (12.2 SRM) reminds me of Younger's Scotch Ale that I used to drink a bit of back in the 90's. McEwan's 80/- was darker and Younger's No.3 was almost black.

It looks like a very tasty variation to me!

 

[RedlegEd]

Andy,
Thanks for the suggestions. Changed it up a bit to reduce C40 to 2oz (1.4%), C80 to 5oz (3.5%), Special B to 2oz (1.4%), and bumped the Munich to 3.88lbs to keep OG at 1.047. I'm hoping the higher amount of C80 will impart a more toasty flavor (I can also go to C120,) and reducing the C40 to keep it from being cloying. Hopefully, the 1.4% of the Special B will complement the biscuity/breadiness of the MO/GP (I'll probably use GP b/c that's what I have.) I'm hoping to get a full, malt forward version of yours, only lighter. If it's still a little too sweet, I can always up the bittering charge, or boil for 90. Ed

 

[EnglishAndy]

I think it looks great Ed, I'd love to hear how it turns out if you decide to brew it.

 

[EnglishAndy]

Just another quick update now the keg has gone and only the bottles remain. I don't know how it happens but I always get a more mellow taste in the keg and more bitterness from the bottles. It seems the hop oils survive for longer in bottles.

Anyway, still loving it but next time I'm going to reduce the IBUs to about 20 and swap out the 20 minute addition for a Styrian Golding. So it'll probably be 20g EKG at 60 and 25g Styrian Goldings at 15. I think this will help with the balance and allow the malts to shine through as much in the bottles as they did in the keg.

 

[RedlegEd]

Just another quick update now the keg has gone and only the bottles remain. I don't know how it happens but I always get a more mellow taste in the keg and more bitterness from the bottles. It seems the hop oils survive for longer in bottles.

Anyway, still loving it but next time I'm going to reduce the IBUs to about 20 and swap out the 20 minute addition for a Styrian Golding. So it'll probably be 20g EKG at 60 and 25g Styrian Goldings at 15. I think this will help with the balance and allow the malts to shine through as much in the bottles as they did in the keg.

Andy,
That's an interesting observation and plan. I have two thoughts. One, if you reduce the IBUs for the bottled version, what will be the effect on the kegged version? Two, I'd think your 15 minute charge is really more a flavoring addition than a bittering one, so by changing the type of hop on the 15 minute charge (assuming similar AA%,) won't you essentially have the same thing with only a flavor variation? I agree that the switch from EKG to Styrian (or Fuggles) might help mellow the flavor a little, or maybe add just the right amount of "earthy-spiciness." All in all, if the changes make the kegged version even maltier (without being overly sweet,) as well as debitter your bottled version, this would be a really nice adjustment. I've got almost everything I need to make mine, but I'm waiting on space as I have a Blonde kegged and Coconut Chocolate Stout ready to keg. Ed

 

[RedlegEd]

Andy,
Fermentation is complete and after cold crashing for a week, I kegged/bottled mine. I finished with 22 qts of beer, so I kegged 5 gallons, and bottled 2L in a fliptop bottle with 0.3oz table sugar to prime. As you can see from the picture, it's quite a bit lighter than yours. The hydro sample tasted very good, balanced but a little less malty than I had hoped. Maybe after it has time to condition, the maltiness will shine through better. The stats on the beer were:
OG: 1.048
FG: 1.009
ABV:5.2%
IBU: 22.7
SRM: 9.43
Thanks for the inspiration for a really great recipe. Ed

 

[EnglishAndy]

Looks great Ed and it's always a good sign when the sample tastes good because it only gets better over time. All my bottles are now gone, the last one being finished about two weeks ago. Towards the end the roasted notes all but faded away and one of my friends commented on a 'liquorice' flavor in there and how it tasted 'like Old Peculiar but with less alcohol'. I'll do it again in winter but for now I've got a batch of my version of the famous Centennial Blonde to get through!

 

[RedlegEd]

Andy, thought I'd provide an update on my version of your beer. After two weeks in the keg, it has really begun to shine. The initial watery mouthfeel is gone, and it's a full, flavorful ale. It's still a little more hoppy/bitter than I'd like, but still very good and drinkable. At about 5.2%, I can drink more than one without getting too loopy. As you can see from the comparison of mine and the latest Zymurgy write up on Scottish Ales, it looks pretty darn close. Thanks again for the inspiration. Ed

 

[MSK_Chess]

Looks pretty awesome. My last attempt at a Scottish export was rather tinny, not enough deep malt character and mouthfeel was thin for the style I felt. Its one of the most difficult styles to get right from my experience but you sir seem to have nailed it! Sláinte!

 

[MSK_Chess]

This is my eighty shilling, it looks good but the taste is far too thin for a Scottish style beer. Only drinking it because I am out of C02

 

[EnglishAndy]

Andy, thought I'd provide an update on my version of your beer. After two weeks in the keg, it has really begun to shine. The initial watery mouthfeel is gone, and it's a full, flavorful ale. It's still a little more hoppy/bitter than I'd like, but still very good and drinkable. At about 5.2%, I can drink more than one without getting too loopy. As you can see from the comparison of mine and the latest Zymurgy write up on Scottish Ales, it looks pretty darn close. Thanks again for the inspiration. Ed

That one of the best looking ales I've ever seen and from your write-up I think I might re-adapt your recipe slightly myself into an ESB later in the year.