Sanke Keg fermenter

[Golddiggie]

Lets see... ~$20-$35 for the coupler plus another $12 for the spunding valve or $1.25 for the bung... Right now, I'll go with the bung option (that just sounds so wrong)...

At least since my kegs are completely intact, I have plenty of future options with them... I could even get some new retention rings, and use them for serving brew if I wanted to get the other hardware...

Having the spears fully intact also helps... Although I am tempted to weld a pair together...

 

[JuanMoore]

Lets see... ~$20-$35 for the coupler plus another $12 for the spunding valve or $1.25 for the bung... Right now, I'll go with the bung option (that just sounds so wrong)...

At least since my kegs are completely intact, I have plenty of future options with them... I could even get some new retention rings, and use them for serving brew if I wanted to get the other hardware...

Having the spears fully intact also helps... Although I am tempted to weld a pair together...

I put mine together for under $30 per keg, and the advantages would be well worth triple that cost. Beer is perfectly carbonated right out of the fermenter, can use the same vessel for fermentation and serving, transfers (if needed) are as easy as swapping a QD, can ferment at higher temps without the associated off-flavors, can ferment clean lager-like beers at ale temps, etc, etc. YMMV, but I think it's a viable option.

 

[Randar]

I put mine together for under $30 per keg, and the advantages would be well worth triple that cost. Beer is perfectly carbonated right out of the fermenter, can use the same vessel for fermentation and serving, transfers (if needed) are as easy as swapping a QD, can ferment at higher temps without the associated off-flavors, can ferment clean lager-like beers at ale temps, etc, etc. YMMV, but I think it's a viable option.

Please provide said formula. I don't see the advantages in my setup. I have followed that thread and it is an interesting technique. I don't serve from Sankes, so that benefit of carbing in the fermentation and serving vessel is null and void to me.

Aside from that, IMO, the benefits are personal preference and not quantifiable.

 

[Golddiggie]

I put mine together for under $30 per keg, and the advantages would be well worth triple that cost. Beer is perfectly carbonated right out of the fermenter, can use the same vessel for fermentation and serving, transfers (if needed) are as easy as swapping a QD, can ferment at higher temps without the associated off-flavors, can ferment clean lager-like beers at ale temps, etc, etc. YMMV, but I think it's a viable option.

None of that matters to me... Especially since I'm not serving from kegs at this time... So while it's well worth the cost to YOU, it's worth nothing to me. Even when I do start serving from kegs, I'll still end up bottling at least part of batches. There will also be batches that I bottle 100% of... I'm not about to put a big barley wine, old ale, or wee heavy on tap... I'd rather have a single bottle to enjoy as I wish. Besides, I'll use the taps for other brews, that I'm going through much faster.

 

[Golddiggie]

Please provide said formula. I don't see the advantages in my setup. I have followed that thread and it is an interesting technique. I don't serve from Sankes, so that benefit of carbing in the fermentation and serving vessel is null and void to me.

Aside from that, IMO, the benefits are personal preference and not quantifiable.

Could not agree more... :rockin:

 

[JuanMoore]

It allows the brewing of completely different styles of beer. Even if the carbonation and serving advantages aren't of use to you, the drastically different flavor possibilities are something anyone can utilize. And FWIW, the differences are quantifiable, as evidenced by Rogue brewing being able to create a beer classified as a Maibock or Helles Bock using an ale yeast at ale temps. It's not for everyone, and YMMV, but I think it's worth mentioning.

 

[JuanMoore]

None of that matters to me... Especially since I'm not serving from kegs at this time... So while it's well worth the cost to YOU, it's worth nothing to me. Even when I do start serving from kegs, I'll still end up bottling at least part of batches. There will also be batches that I bottle 100% of... I'm not about to put a big barley wine, old ale, or wee heavy on tap... I'd rather have a single bottle to enjoy as I wish. Besides, I'll use the taps for other brews, that I'm going through much faster.

I'm not trying to talk you into pressurized fermentation, but just want to point out that bottling pre-carbonated beer from a sanke is faster and easier than any other method I've used, especially if only bottling part of a batch. I bottle at least a couple of six packs from every batch, and my spunding valve set-up has made that easier, not more difficult. To each his own, I just don't want people reading this to have any mis-conceptions about pressurized fermentation.

 

[Randar]

It allows the brewing of completely different styles of beer. Even if the carbonation and serving advantages aren't of use to you, the drastically different flavor possibilities are something anyone can utilize.

False. Doing it differently does not make it a different style. I could certainly ferment with a clean ale strain at cooler temps and accomplish similar results. The technique just provides a different dial to turn in the process. And if I care about head pressure, I can tune this with a container of water my blow-off hose is dipped in.

And FWIW, the differences are quantifiable, as evidenced by Rogue brewing being able to create a beer classified as a Maibock or Helles Bock using an ale yeast at ale temps.

And you made this leap of logic how? The primary yeast characteristics of Maibock/Helles are clean, no diacetyl, & fruity esters should be low to none. This can be achieved with no fewer than a dozen commercially available clean ale yeast strains fermented at cool temps and left long enough to clean up after themselves and/or with a short diacetyl rest.

Temp control is still the vital variable and head pressure just changes the translation of temperature to desired characteristic for a given strain. This is why a beer brewed with a given yeast on a commercial scale can be brewed at 78 degrees and achieve the same profile in a small-scale homebrew by fermenting at 68, just as a simple example. You are, partially recreating that head pressure environment by using the pressurized fermentation, but it is still not the same thing as the large scale brewery environment, just somewhere between the 2 point.

Also, ester production is going to be suppressed by the head pressure so a good number of styles will be unachievable or at the very least be brewed in less than ideal circumstances.

Again, it comes back to a preference. Nothing more. You can achieve the same effective results with different techniques. This particular technique does not unlock some secret catacomb of styles unattainable to the rest of the mortal world.

It's not for everyone, and YMMV, but I think it's worth mentioning.

I thought you said it was worth at least 3 times the cost of doing so? Why wouldn't that be for everyone?

Yes, it is worth mentioning, but there is no reason to make it out to be something it is not.

 

[dallasdb]

Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with four Sanke keg spears...

I saw in the classifieds sections awhile back a guy made a mash paddle out of his sanke keg spear. He smashed down one end and welded another flat piece of stainless for the paddle.

If you didn't have another piece of stainless but more sanke dip tubes you could cut lengths of dip tube, smash them down, weld them together to make the paddle.

I have two sanke tubes I might give it a shot!

Edit: Okay I found a picture of the sanke dip tube mash paddle. This wasn't the one I originally saw but it works.

https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/1/medium/DSC00688.JPG

 

[JonW]

Pressurized fermentation in sankes is awesome, and offers lots of cool advantages. The 1/6 bbl size is perfect for 5 gal batches, and the 1/2 bbl size is great for 10-12 gal batches. Sanke couplers can be found for next to nothing regularly on craigslist around here, and spunding valves can be made using a few parts from the hardware store. The pre-built tri clamp set-ups look nice too, but they're pricey and require modifications to use for pressurized fermentation.

If you use a sanke coupler, how are you sanitizing the spear valving? Are you going through the step of putting starsan in the keg and forcing it out with CO2?

If you pressure transfer with the spear, are you just cutting off a fixed amount from the spear so you don't get any trub? Seems like a racking cane would allow more flexibility.

 

[Randar]

Here is a link to the pressurized fermentation thread. I am sure it is discussed there... much like some of the rest of the thread hijacks seen in this thread (guilty as charged)

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

 

[Golddiggie]

I plan on using 3 gallon corny kegs for the balance of 5 gallon batches, so bottling ~2 gallons of the brew... Once I move to 10 gallon batches, I'll figure out how to bottle/serve them... I do like the thought of taking a 3 gallon corny keg to parties/gatherings over using a 5 gallon keg though. I know of one person that has made a backpack that holds a keg, chilled down, and a CO2 tank. He simply has the picnic tap over his shoulder and can fill up a glass easily. Doesn't even need to take the backpack off to add more CO2 to the keg... I wouldn't want to try that with a 5 gallon keg, of any style... ~35# of brew and CO2 bottle (initially) is ok, but it's better as you serve more... Of course, as it's approaching the end, it's more mixed feelings...

 

[dallasdb]

I received two 15.5G sankes recently with plastic tops/bottoms. I think I'm going to try fermenting my next batch in one of them using a carboy cap.

My main issue is moving the vessel. I brew in the garage or in the yard, and my fermentation chamber is in the basement, 40-50' from either location. I'll have to start brainstorming.

I believe the correct term is "keg wrestling."

It is a great workout and part of my new Beer90x workout.

Details below:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/keggle-full-boil-extract-kits-235946/

I don't have a gym membership because I brew:

Keggle wrestling really works the core
Manual Corona Grain Mill works the back, shoulders, and arms
Drinking homebrews while brewing is a lot of repetitions and works the biceps.

There are many variations to my Beer90x workout system. My dvd series will soon run infomercials on late night!

 

[toolboxdiver]

I ferment in 50 liter (about 13 gallons) euro sanke and it's perfect for 10 gallon batches. I do just as you say. I use a #11 rubber stopper and airlock (which will work on a normal sanke as well). I reinsert the spear and use the coupler to force carb with co2 when fermentation is complete. No modification is needed to the keg.

There has been tons written on this on this forum. In particular read Wortmonger's thread on pressurized fermentation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

here's another thread I participated in that's fairly rich with other links to more sanke knowlege:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rubber-keg-use-210243/

great info thanks for your help

 

[toolboxdiver]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with all the great info I'll be using a Sanke fermenter too

 

[JuanMoore]

If you use a sanke coupler, how are you sanitizing the spear valving? Are you going through the step of putting starsan in the keg and forcing it out with CO2?

If you pressure transfer with the spear, are you just cutting off a fixed amount from the spear so you don't get any trub? Seems like a racking cane would allow more flexibility.

I completely disassemble the kegs to clean and sanitize all parts, just like breweries do. I replaced the coil style retaining rings with large snap rings to make it quicker and easier. It's really not much more work than cleaning a carboy, bung, and 3 piece airlock once you get the hang of it. And yes, I simply cut ~1/2" off the bottom of the spear.

 

[vonZwicky]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with all the great info I'll be using a Sanke fermenter too

I'm sure you'll find the use of sankies rewarding. Just take your time and be safe. Read up on it thoroughly before beginning. Beer that's still fermenting can generate incredible pressures in a keg if it's sealed up prematurely. Make sure you use a proper regulator. I've seen kegs that have been blown open by excessive pressure, and it's not pretty. So long as you have a healthy respect for potential energy, you'll be fine.

 

[toolboxdiver]

I'm sure you'll find the use of sankies rewarding. Just take your time and be safe. Read up on it thoroughly before beginning. Beer that's still fermenting can generate incredible pressures in a keg if it's sealed up prematurely. Make sure you use a proper regulator. I've seen kegs that have been blown open by excessive pressure, and it's not pretty. So long as you have a healthy respect for potential energy, you'll be fine.

Thanks, and yes I do respect pressure, I'm a Industrial maintenance mechanic in a steel drum plant so pneumatics are a big part of my job

 

[toolboxdiver]

I completely disassemble the kegs to clean and sanitize all parts, just like breweries do. I replaced the coil style retaining rings with large snap rings to make it quicker and easier. It's really not much more work than cleaning a carboy, bung, and 3 piece airlock once you get the hang of it. And yes, I simply cut ~1/2" off the bottom of the spear.

I cut a inch off mine, might make a second cut off a half inch and give them both a try

 

[vonZwicky]

I cut a inch off mine, might make a second cut off a half inch and give them both a try

A buddy of mine uses this approach: I think he has 3/4" cut from the spear of his fermenter, and then transfers to a serving keg that has about 3/8" cut off the spear. This way he can leave most of the yeast behind in the primary, and still leaves a little room for the yeast that gets through to settle.

Edit: I haven't had the stones to cut any off the spear in my Euro-sankey. I'm still looking for a spare valve stem before I try it. That said, I was able to transfer clear beer from it, I just had to wait a long time for the yeast to settle.

 

[dallasdb]

I've seen kegs that have been blown open by excessive pressure, and it's not pretty.

Please tell me you took pictures and are going to upload them!

 

[vonZwicky]

Please tell me you took pictures and are going to upload them!

I've never actually seen a keg explode, but I've seen the kegs afterwords, and I can only guess at the circumstances that led to it. A homebrew fermentation gone awry, or more likely someone trying to hook an unregulated CO2 source to a keg. I dunno.

The kegs don't break up into shrapnel, but the way they become unseamed at the welds (and sometimes not at the welds), and the metal is twisted, I'm sure it had to be dramatic. I also don't know if/how these kegs were propelled by the blasts. I will postulate this: An exploding empty keg is more dangerous than one that is full of beer because 1)gas will expand much more than liquid when it is released from pressure, and 2) an empty keg has less mass and is more likely to be hurled by the force of the rupture.

If I ever see another of these, I will take pics. No doubt it would be informative for a lot of folks.

 

[dallasdb]

I've never actually seen a keg explode, but I've seen the kegs afterwords, and I can only guess at the circumstances that led to it. A homebrew fermentation gone awry, or more likely someone trying to hook an unregulated CO2 source to a keg. I dunno.QUOTE]


http://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/04/us/exploding-keg-kills-host.html
August 4th 1981 the NY Times reported that a keg exploded and killed a guy. The report guessed the keg heated up when they took it to the beach and blew up when they brought it back to the frat house.

I find it hard to believe that the sun in August in California would heat up a keg enough to make it explode.

I bet he was drunk and just kept pumping the tap to pressurize it as much as he could.

 

[Golddiggie]

You had to look all the way back 30 years to find a keg explosion incident... Nice... Keep in mind, Sanke kegs are only rated up to 60psi... It's stamped right on the top.

Sounds like the frat guy from CA was victim of his own stupidity... Who would leave a keg of BEER in the sun, without cooling it?? Besides blitzed frat boys that is... It probably had more to do with thermal stress from the high temps at the beach, and then putting it into the fridge, and then over-charging it with pressure that did it... IF they had been a bit smarter, the beer would have lived...

 

[HHP]

I don't have a gym membership because I brew:

Keggle wrestling really works the core
Manual Corona Grain Mill works the back, shoulders, and arms
Drinking homebrews while brewing is a lot of repetitions and works the biceps.

There are many variations to my Beer90x workout system. My dvd series will soon run infomercials on late night!

When the DVD comes out send me a PM. If I show this to my platoon sergeant, maybe he will let us do it for morning PT...

 

[vonZwicky]

One doesn't have to go as far back as 30 years:

http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2007/12/19/ruling-on-beer-keg-explosion/

This poor guy died just trying to move a keg.

 

[Golddiggie]

One doesn't have to go as far back as 30 years:

http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2007/12/19/ruling-on-beer-keg-explosion/

This poor guy died just trying to move a keg.

Great, now the Brady Bunch are probably going to try to prevent us from owning kegs since they kill people...

Still, I would have to say that death by keg explosion is pretty damned rare... IF you're fermenting in it (and under zero excess pressure) you have nothing to worry about. As long as you're properly handling your serving kegs, you also have virtually nothing to worry about. Charge them to a stupid PSI and you better have good life insurance (that doesn't have an 'act of stupidity' clause in it )...

 

[Salmonhouse]

Not much to add, just that i use a Ferm-Rite breathable bung as an airlock.

I still use carboys too. I am tending more to the carboys as of right now because i really like being able to see some kind of activity, where as the keg you dont know what's going on in there, but you dont really need to worry about light exposure either so suit yourself.

I like the idea of using the orange cap with the racking cane to push with co2, at least this way you can push the cane down just enough to not pick up any yeast sediment.

 

[JohnnyO]

In addition to the orange carboy cap and 30" racking cane, what are the other parts to hook up CO2 to push the beer out of the sanke after fermentation?

I have the regulator and hose, but what connection is used at the point of the carboy cap?

 

[Randar]

In addition to the orange carboy cap and 30" racking cane, what are the other parts to hook up CO2 to push the beer out of the sanke after fermentation?

I have the regulator and hose, but what connection is used at the point of the carboy cap?

I had to use a brass adapter to fit to a slightly larger hose and then used a hose clamp to secure the hose slipped OVER the longer/slimmer of the ports on the carboy cap. Work back from a hose that fits securely over that port and convert as needed to the gas line.