Need advice for closed transfer from glass carboy to keg

[Art2019]

Today's brewday & need suggestions on closed transfering to keg from carboy.
I plan on using the stopper with thermowell in pic to fermentation process with only 1 transfer to keg.
Would it hurt much when ready to transfer to remove stopper & use the carboy top to transfer? I watched a vid where the top (orange in pic) was used for closed transfer. A tube was connected to keg & inside carboy and you blow in other nipple to create pressure to transfer in keg.
I figured with a 3" opening, there wouldn't be too much harm switching out the stopper with cap to transfer. Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[tracer bullet]

I used to do it that way, I'd stick a racking cane through the center hole and then put a barbed fitting connected to my CO2 tank into the smaller, angled hole. The racking cane was of course connected to the keg.

I'd just be sure the orange cap is tight enough to have a seal against ambient air but not so tight you put any sort of real pressure into the carboy. And as a related note to glass carboy safety, maybe consider a different way to ferment, there's just so many stories of broken glass carboys genuinely hurting people.

 

[Broken Crow]

and you blow in other nipple

I hope you mean with CO2! Yes it works and a carefully adjusted hose clamp helps. Take a look at @day_trippr 's:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-full-weight-do-you-fill-your-kegs.733747/#post-10400884

 

[Bobby_M]

You'll need to hold the orange cap in place as you slowly increase CO2 pressure enough (no more than 1psi) to get the beer to go up the racking cane, but I do not suggest using any kind of clamps. The pressure is to start the beer up and over the cane but you need to put the carboy up on a high surface so that once it starts transferring, gravity takes over for you. Once flow starts, you should be able to let go of the orange cap and not have it pop off. If it does, your pressure is too high.

 

[Deadalus]

I use the stopper with thermowell to ferment and then the transfer cap like the one in day_trippr's pic. I find those types of orange caps don't maintain their roundness when stored and have been questionable when used during fermentation. Even the tiniest pressure generally leaks so I use the clamp at my own risk. You could conceivably create a 3 or 4 hole stopper to have it all in place but I am ok with the quick stopper changeout myself. I have a 4 hole stopper that holds a slim cooling coil, thermowell, and airlock. It's actually an Anvil product. Two holes are sized for 3/16" tubing.

To make a hole in a rubber stopper you can sharpen a piece of SS tubing, mount in a drill, and clamp down the stopper to drill it.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, here's how I rack from carboys to kegs with close-ups of all the bits used.
It only takes ~ 1 psi to get the flow started and then gravity does most of the rest...

I use the shorter cane below on the receiving carboy for those rare occasions I use a "secondary" (for fruiting wheat beers).

Paint strainer mesh with a SS washer to help keep it open and not sucked up the cane.

Carboy cap assembly close-up. Yes, I use a worm clamp. I'm also hella careful.

Carboy cap parts. A Cornelius gas post with a 1/4" FFL adapter and associated nylon fisheye washer
Inset shows SS 1/4" MFL to 1/4" barb fitting. All parts available from chicompany.net.

Cheers!

 

[Art2019]

I used to do it that way, I'd stick a racking cane through the center hole and then put a barbed fitting connected to my CO2 tank into the smaller, angled hole. The racking cane was of course connected to the keg.

I'd just be sure the orange cap is tight enough to have a seal against ambient air but not so tight you put any sort of real pressure into the carboy. And as a related note to glass carboy safety, maybe consider a different way to ferment, there's just so many stories of broken glass carboys genuinely hurting people.

So you switched stopper with cap?
Also, I've never had issues with my glass carboy. I've used it for about 3 yrs started to brew with a Fast Ferment conical but am learning that proper cooling is necessary so bringing carboy back so i can put it in my chest cooler. The conical is too big & unable to find fridge for a reasonable price that it will fit in.

 

[tracer bullet]

So you switched stopper with cap?
Also, I've never had issues with my glass carboy.

Yes, switched stopper with cap.

I never had issues either, just a few moments where it would get hit with something or set down a tiny bit too hard. I mostly opted for plastic fermenters to allow myself to have spigots and customize the much bigger lids (also easier to clean). And no more worries about giant glass things getting broken.

 

[Art2019]

Yes, switched stopper with cap.

I never had issues either, just a few moments where it would get hit with something or set down a tiny bit too hard. I mostly opted for plastic fermenters to allow myself to have spigots and customize the much bigger lids (also easier to clean). And no more worries about giant glass things getting broken.

Cool. My bro has a wide mouth. I can use that next time. I have time for my options on transfer & just wanted to get it straight this time. I've always had an off flavor brew & told I was don't many things wrong. This is my improvent stage.

 

[tracer bullet]

Nice. Improvements are good! Backfilling the carboy with CO2 to avoid O2 exposure is good, and if you're kegging you probably already know about filling the keg with water or star-san mixture and then pushing it out with CO2, so that there's no O2 in there either, right? If yes, great. If not, check it out, it's at least as important and perhaps more.

 

[Art2019]

Nice. Improvements are good! Backfilling the carboy with CO2 to avoid O2 exposure is good, and if you're kegging you probably already know about filling the keg with water or star-san mixture and then pushing it out with CO2, so that there's no O2 in there either, right? If yes, great. If not, check it out, it's at least as important and perhaps more.

No, I've always put star san in keg but never pushed out co2. I've always emptied it since I've always been doing open tranfers. Trying to improve my old way of doing things but don't want to waste a whole canister of co2 sanitizing.

 

[tracer bullet]

If you want to truly keep the air out (and the O2 you are probably fighting) you'll sort of have to. Fill to the tip top with air and then attach Co2 to the inlet side, and a tube to the outlet side. Once the water's emptied, it's full of CO2, and you won't oxidize any beer going in. It's the same amount of CO2 that will get used to backfill the carboy. You will use CO2 of course but your beer will be that much better for it.

Try it a few times and see if it's wroth it. Then look at ways your fermentation gas coming out of the carboy can be used to clear the air from the keg. And a true closed loop transfer - if you set the keg on the floor and gravity drain the fermenter into it, the CO2 coming out of the keg can be used to backfill the fermenter. Then you're only using CO2 to carbonate the beer. Which of course if you ferment under pressure (not a glass carboy mind you, stainless) you can avoid as well. But these are things you might want to tackle one at a time.

 

[Art2019]

If you want to truly keep the air out (and the O2 you are probably fighting) you'll sort of have to. Fill to the tip top with air and then attach Co2 to the inlet side, and a tube to the outlet side. Once the water's emptied, it's full of CO2, and you won't oxidize any beer going in. It's the same amount of CO2 that will get used to backfill the carboy. You will use CO2 of course but your beer will be that much better for it.

Try it a few times and see if it's wroth it. Then look at ways your fermentation gas coming out of the carboy can be used to clear the air from the keg. And a true closed loop transfer - if you set the keg on the floor and gravity drain the fermenter into it, the CO2 coming out of the keg can be used to backfill the fermenter. Then you're only using CO2 to carbonate the beer. Which of course if you ferment under pressure (not a glass carboy mind you, stainless) you can avoid as well. But these are things you might want to tackle one at a time.

I guess it's all about baby steps. I've done open transfers for years & it was the only way I've known. Will just need to learn this new process. So, you don't think blowing into carboy to create pressure for transfer will work?

 

[day_trippr]

I got away doing "open" transfers from carboy to bottle bucket 20 years ago and then carboy to keg starting 17 years ago - well before the IBU Wars, never mind the hazy craze of today. You could get away with some "packaging O2" for most styles if you didn't let them dwell for too long after, because they weren't so freakin' reactive to post-fermentation O2 as the hop bombs of today.

As 70% of what I brew the last many years have been highly hopped hazies I have to do the best that my gear allows to keep them around for as long as I often do (5 months isn't unusual)...

Cheers!

 

[Art2019]

I got away doing "open" transfers from carboy to bottle bucket 20 years ago and then carboy to keg starting 17 years ago - well before the IBU Wars, never mind the hazy craze of today. You could get away with some "packaging O2" for most styles if you didn't let them dwell for too long after, because they weren't so freakin' reactive to post-fermentation O2 as the hop bombs of today.

As 70% of what I brew the last many years have been highly hopped hazies I have to do the best that my gear allows to keep them around for as long as I often do (5 months isn't unusual)...

Cheers!

Thanks! Don't really have the equipment to do all I've seen and on a budget now. It's not that bad, but i pay about $20+ for co2 & to use a tank to protect risk of oxygenation for wheat brew doesn't totally make sense at the moment.

 

[tracer bullet]

So, you don't think blowing into carboy to create pressure for transfer will work?

It will. The closed loop is a future state. You'd need something with a spigot, and the fermenter high with the keg low, so gravity can do it's job. Not sure how a racking cane could do it.

You'd be something like... CO2 into the fermenter to push the beer out. Beer goes into the keg through the liquid out post. CO2 comes out of the keg through the gas in post. The fittings would have to be reconfigured to allow this after having already used CO2 to push the water out.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I have done this a couple times with wine; the only thing that I ferment in carboys. Just remember to open the prv in the receiving keg as you apply pressure to the carboy so that you don’t build up too much pressure in the glass. I also start with the racking cane pushed way down to minimize the pressure required to push the wine over the hump and start the flow.
Once the gravity flow starts, disconnect the tank and connect the line from gas post on keg to gas post on the carboy cap. Then close the prv.

I modeled my setup with advice and the photos from day_trippr, which he provided again up above, with one slight modification. I used a carb cap with a barb that I had instead of his gas post setup on the carboy cap. No teal difference, though.

Also, I always put on safety glasses, gloves, and leather boots when doing this, just in case. Further, I do it on the carport where the cleanup would be with a hose should something bad happen.

 

[Art2019]

I have done this a couple times with wine; the only thing that I ferment in carboys. Just remember to open the prv in the receiving keg as you apply pressure to the carboy so that you don’t build up too much pressure in the glass. I also start with the racking cane pushed way down to minimize the pressure required to push the wine over the hump and start the flow.
Once the gravity flow starts, disconnect the tank and connect the line from gas post on keg to gas post on the carboy cap. Then close the prv.

I modeled my setup with advice and the photos from day_trippr, which he provided again up above, with one slight modification. I used a carb cap with a barb that I had instead of his gas post setup on the carboy cap. No teal difference, though.

Also, I always put on safety glasses, gloves, and leather boots when doing this, just in case. Further, I do it on the carport where the cleanup would be with a hose should something bad happen.

You brew with controlled temp, right? I'm just starting this method & just pitched WB-06 about 5 hrs ago & set my InkBird at 67. Batch was 71F and it chilled to 61.4F & it's been at that temp for 5 hrs now. Stat is showing "heating" meaning my chiller is off until it reaches 67F. Is my batch screwed or will the yeast just be in limbo until it warms to right temp? Not sure how or why it cooled this low.

 

[tracer bullet]

will the yeast just be in limbo until it warms to right temp?

Basically this, though they are probably still doing things at the lower temp just more slowly. But you haven't killed them.

(If they are dead, it was before this, not because of this)

 

[Art2019]

Basically this, though they are probably still doing things at the lower temp just more slowly. But you haven't killed them.

(If they are dead, it was before this, not because of this)

I just turned the fridge off until it warms up a bit. It's not perking, yet. Will check in the morning. It just went down another degree & fridge is off.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I just turned the fridge off until it warms up a bit. It's not perking, yet. Will check in the morning. It just went down another degree & fridge is off.

If it’s only been 5+ hours, I wouldn’t worry about it not bubbling yet. My current problem is one that won’t stop! It’s been going nearly 4 weeks!!

 

[Art2019]

If it’s only been 5+ hours, I wouldn’t worry about it not bubbling yet. My current problem is one that won’t stop! It’s been going nearly 4 weeks!!

Just woke up this a.m. it's at 62.5F, not bubbling but is very foamy at top which tells me it's doing something but very slow.