Pickettj
Well-Known Member
Can I use regular chlorine as a sanitizer instead of star San or iodophor? Are there any extra steps I need to take to protect the wort and yeast if I do?
Sanitizer
- Thread starter Pickettj
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Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
You can, provided it's pure bleach as in nothing added to it. But, it's not advisable. You have to rinse off bleach/chlorine based sanitizer solutions REALLY well. Which, unless you used sanitized water (as already mentioned, via boiling) you're negating the sanitizing effect you tried to achieve. IMO, just get some Star San and don't worry about it. Well, unless you want to have medicinal flavor in your beer (think sucking on a band-aid). 
IMO, Star San is so cheap for the amount you mix up with it (1oz in 5 gallons) it's not even worth thinking about going to chlorine solutions.
IMO, Star San is so cheap for the amount you mix up with it (1oz in 5 gallons) it's not even worth thinking about going to chlorine solutions.
F250
Well-Known Member
+2 on Star San. Buy the big jug and it's not expensive. Sure beats dumping an infected batch, or one that tastes weird because of chlorine. :rockin:
Rick
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
16oz bottle is $11.50 on Northern Brewer's site. That's enough to mix up 80 gallons of sanitizer solution. The larger one (32oz) is $15.99 and is enough to make 160 gallons of solution. Even the SMALL one (8oz) at $7.99 is enough to make 40 gallons. So, you either pay $0.20 per gallon with the 8oz bottle, $0.14 per gallon with the 16oz bottle, or $0.10 per gallon with the 32oz bottle...
Most of the time, I mix up 2.5 gallons at once. I'll fill/refill my spray bottle from that to use later, or as needed. IMO, spend, $0.50 for the 2.5 gallons of Star San solution per brew day and don't worry about it at all. IMO, trying to save a FEW CENTS by using chlorine risks a full batch of beer. That can be $30-$50 for a 5 gallon extract batch. In that context, seems kind of silly/foolish to NOT use Star San, doesn't it?
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F250
Well-Known Member
I've been buying the 32oz bottle from IIRC NB, cheap insurance. 
Rick
Rick
Pickettj
Well-Known Member
It's not a matter of saving money, it's a matter of availability. My kit will be here wednesday and I have no sanitizer! I didn't know the kit didn't come with any.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Chances are, a hardware kit will come with some kind of sanitizer. Unfortunately, most come with chlorine based sanitizers.
Are there NO LHBS's in your area??? If not, then place an order (for Star San) with a closer one so that it arrives this week.
F250
Well-Known Member
My deluxe starter kit came with B-Brite, but no sanitizer.
I'd wait for sanitizer personally.
Rick
Star San goes a long long long way if you use a spray bottle. Mix it with distilled or reverse osmosis water and it will still be good for quite a while. I usually mix a gallon at a time and fill my spray bottle from that. I spray the ***t out of everything. It is a contact sanitizer so it will kill 99% of bacteria within a minute on any clean surface. I use an ice cream bucket lid for a sanitary surface. I spray it down, then spray things like my thermometer and turkey baster for taking gravity readings and then set them on the lid. I also mix about a gallon on every bottling day to run through my siphon hose and soak my caps in. I use the spray bottle to spray into bottles to sanitize them.
I don't skimp at all and through 40ish batches I have only used about 12 ounces of Star San.
Now that I think about it I have probably spent more on distilled water than I have on Star San.
I don't skimp at all and through 40ish batches I have only used about 12 ounces of Star San.
Now that I think about it I have probably spent more on distilled water than I have on Star San.
Pickettj
Well-Known Member
Golddiggie said:Chances are, a hardware kit will come with some kind of sanitizer. Unfortunately, most come with chlorine based sanitizers.
Are there NO LHBS's in your area??? If not, then place an order (for Star San) with a closer one so that it arrives this week.
The closest HBS is 1:20 away so it's hardly local. Ill probably just make the drive. The alternative is a rediculous wait because of the holiday.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Just be sure to get something else you can also use on that trip. A second hydrometer, some yeast nutrient, etc. Maybe something else that kit isn't coming with. Maybe bring a print out of the kit contents with you so the people at the LHBS know what's coming and can help you get the things not in it that you'll need.
The closest (decent) LHBS where I sued to live was about 40-50 minutes away (each way). Now, it's maybe 10 minutes. :rockin: Really liking the change.
Pickettj
Well-Known Member
I'm Thinking about just boiling everything for the ferment so I can get it going. I can get star San for racking out and such. As far as I've heard sanitizer is just insurance and it's brand spankin new. I know that doesn't mean germ free...but I'll have 2 or more going by next week...
The problem with using bleach on a regular basis, to sanitize OR clean, while at the same time using municipal water, certain minerals in whatever water you use and certain plastics, is that you could build up chlorophenols in your brewing systems, which could contribute to off flavors in your beer.
In some situations they work cumulatively by having little bits of chlorine in different parts of the brewing process that your beer may come in contact with, and it builds up and bammo plastic band aid flavor.
It's best to avoid chlorine as much as possible, and in the case of sanitizing ONLY in the most dire situations, like where you know for sure you have an infection.....we call it slash and burning.
I try to limit the amount of contact my gear comes to chlorine and chlorine products.
chlorophenols are funny that way, some folks aren't affected, and in other situations the right combination causes issues. I try to avoid it as much as possible.
And unfortunately my understanding is that folks have little control over is their setups can handle it. I've heard of folks being successful for years with it, then they replace one piece of gear like their autosiphon, or move and change water sources, or have new plumbing put in, and suddenly they have them now.
In some situations they work cumulatively by having little bits of chlorine in different parts of the brewing process that your beer may come in contact with, and it builds up and bammo plastic band aid flavor.
It's best to avoid chlorine as much as possible, and in the case of sanitizing ONLY in the most dire situations, like where you know for sure you have an infection.....we call it slash and burning.
I try to limit the amount of contact my gear comes to chlorine and chlorine products.
chlorophenols are funny that way, some folks aren't affected, and in other situations the right combination causes issues. I try to avoid it as much as possible.
And unfortunately my understanding is that folks have little control over is their setups can handle it. I've heard of folks being successful for years with it, then they replace one piece of gear like their autosiphon, or move and change water sources, or have new plumbing put in, and suddenly they have them now.
Pickettj
Well-Known Member
Golddiggie said:Just be sure to get something else you can also use on that trip. A second hydrometer, some yeast nutrient, etc. Maybe something else that kit isn't coming with. Maybe bring a print out of the kit contents with you so the people at the LHBS know what's coming and can help you get the things not in it that you'll need.
The closest (decent) LHBS where I sued to live was about 40-50 minutes away (each way). Now, it's maybe 10 minutes. :rockin: Really liking the change.
Yeah, I had planned on getting some other gear while I was there. Including a second and third kit!
GASoline71
Well-Known Member
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Get a couple more primaries too, so you can give the brews enough time to become great before you do anything else with them.
IMO, learning patience from the start will only give you even better brew later.If you read Papazian, he used to advocate chlorine bleach (unscented) as a cheap sanitizer. You do need to let it air dry pretty thoroughly, and you use a dilute solution to sanitize.
I use bleach to soak my bottles after use - a quarter cup of bleach to about 3 gallons of water. It takes out all the residue I sometimes see.
I use bleach to soak my bottles after use - a quarter cup of bleach to about 3 gallons of water. It takes out all the residue I sometimes see.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Operative words "used to"... Most of the founding fathers of home brew (AFAIK) have gotten away from using chlorine sanitizers. They recommended using it back before we had quality no-rinse sanitizers like what Five Star produces.
SpentGrains
Well-Known Member
Any feed stores around? You can get a gallon of iodophor type sanitizer there and use that.
F250
Well-Known Member
Great idea!
Most farm and home stores will have it. I'd bet there's a dozen locations here locally that would have something like iodophor.
Rick
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
That's the stuff that will stain your plastics and has it's effectiveness indicated by color, right?? First one is cosmetic (but nasty) and second one fails when you're color blind.
Which is another reason I use Star San. I don't have to worry about not seeing the color correctly.
F250
Well-Known Member
That's the stuff that will stain your plastics and has it's effectiveness indicated by color, right?? First one is cosmetic (but nasty) and second one fails when you're color blind.
Not completely sure what they would or wouldn't have, but dairy farmers have to be careful with sanitation. Next time I'm out at Tractor Supply I'll see what they carry just to know. Shoot you can buy antibiotics out there. Heh.
Rick
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Not completely sure what they would or wouldn't have, but dairy farmers have to be careful with sanitation. Next time I'm out at Tractor Supply I'll see what they carry just to know. Shoot you can buy antibiotics out there. Heh.
Rick
Dude, keep it in your pants more often... Not just any ewe will do...
F250
Well-Known Member
I use both starsan AND tractor supply company iodine based sanitizers (iodophor) in fact I'm the guy that first started recommending getting it in bulk from a farm and feed store, rather than at a homebrew shop.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Do they have Star San there?? I'll have to see if there are any stores in my area...
Ok kiddies, remember to always ask: WWRD (what would Revvy do)??
F250
Well-Known Member
Teat dip, get your teat dip here! :rockin:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/dairyland-brand-reg-controlled-iodine-teat-dip-1-2-1-gal--2214249
http://www.tractorsupply.com/dairyland-brand-reg-controlled-iodine-teat-dip-1-2-1-gal--2214249
