Saison recipe feedback

[Sully14]

Hello all, just wanted to get some feedback on this Saison i'm going to brew this weekend. Still very new to trying to formulate recipes, so all suggestions are appreciated.

Batch Size - 10 Gallon
Boil Time - 90 Minutes
Target OG: 1.065
Target FG: 1.007
ABV: 7.7%
IBU: 46.65
SRM 9.3
70% Efficiency

18 lbs 2-row Belgian Pilsner
3 lbs Rye Malt
1.5 lbs Acidulated Malt
1.5 lbs Caramunich Malt
1.5 lbs Flaked Rye
Mash @ 149º

1.5 lbs Belgian Candi Sugar Clear 10 Minutes

1.5 oz Topaz - 60 Minutes
1 oz Chinook - 10 Minutes
1 oz Chinook - 0 Minutes
1 oz Willamette - 0 Minutes

Wyeast 3711 - 3 liter starter

Thanks,
Chris

 

[zachattack]

If it were me, I wouldn't want any caramel malt (caramunich) in my saison, though I know a lot of people (including Jamil) include a little in their recipes. I'd replace it with some Munich or one of the more "concentrated" forms of Munich like Melanoidin or Aromatic malt. I like my saisons to be as dry as possible. But with that being said, I do know that 3711 will attenuate the hell out of anything, so chances are it won't make much of a difference.

I'd suggest skipping the Candi sugar and just using cheap table sugar.

But I do like the recipe, especially the rye. mmm.

 

[Sully14]

Thanks Zachattack, i'm going to switch out the Caramunich for Munich and going to sub in the table sugar. Switching in the Munich lowers my SRM to 5.9 which i like too.
I've used 3711 in borrowed extract recipes and were very happy with the results.

Really appreciate the suggestions.

 

[stpug]

I like zach's suggestions and your changes.

If I were brewing this I would swap the 3 lb rye malt for 3 lb wheat malt and here's why: I've found rye malt to impart A LOT of body and some kind of sweetness that lingers (doesn't ferment). I have done a saison that included rye malt and caramunich, and the end result was not as I expected. It is much sweeter and thicker than I could have imagined; though I still like it, it was not what I had imagined prior to brewing. Plus, wheat malt will help bring a subtle sour note to the brew that the rye will not.

I've never used acidulated malt but have looked into using it for water ph adjustments and I'm usually looking at <6oz/5gallons. You're sitting at double that. This is just a word of caution to make sure 1.5 lbs won't torque this brew in the wrong direction.

Last, again, never used, but my understanding that 3711 will attenuate REALLY well. From what I've read, I'd expect this brew to finish 1.004 or less.

 

[Sully14]

St.Pug, thanks for the response. I went with Rye because i wanted that Rye spiciness to come through. I realize this isn't to style, but hopefully it won't ruin it.

I have used acidulated in a couple of Goses that i've brewed. I used about 4lbs (18.6% of the grain bill) for sourness and it was not as pronounced as i wanted it. I was thinking just adding a small percentage to this grain bill would impart a bit of that sourness, but not over do it. That's the hope anyway.

Yeah, 3711 is a crazy one. I'll have to keep an eye on it, but i'm ok with drying this thing out a lot.

I appreciate the help, thanks.

 

[motorneuron]

You might drop the bittering hops down slightly, especially if you are going for a very dry beer with a little acid bite. 45 IBUs in a saison will come through more than 45 IBUs in a typical pale ale, and is pretty high for the style. Maybe reduce the 1.5oz initial to 1oz, or move the addition up to 45 or 30 minutes to reduce AA usage. But if you want a hoppy saison, go for it.

 

[rayfound]

You could save money on the sugar by just using dextrose or table sugar... the clear candi doesn't have any additional flavor that I am aware of.

 

[Sully14]

Thanks motorneuron, i don't really want a hoppy saison, i just had no idea how to properly hop this thing. I have a bunch of Topaz i got from a friend so i thought i'd throw some in. I'll definitely back it off to 1 oz and maybe still throw it in at 45.

 

[motorneuron]

Yeah, just as a guide (not that it's sacrosanct), the BJCP style guidelines give 20-35 as the range for saison IBUs: http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style16.php

To me, though, the reason to bring it down a little is not because the style says so, but because the hop bitterness comes out more (in my experience) in saison than in some other styles where bitterness is balanced better by other robust flavor/texture (such as sweetness or body).

I'm sure you've probably considered this too, but saisons often have weird little final additions for flavor--coriander and orange peel are classics. You can throw a little in if you like the flavor.

 

[Sully14]

Thanks, I appreciate all the info and help. Moving that addition down to 1 oz and changing it to a 45 minute addition drops the IBUs down to 31.1. That seems more balanced.