Brett Beer Saison Brett

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sbuchan

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I brewed this on 1/26/13 and pulled a sample tonight. Smells fantastic, lots of funk with just a hint of tartness. The taste though... I'm getting a cidery, semi-sweet finish (at 1.004). I brewed this with White Labs Farmhouse Blend II and a started I made with Logsdon Farmhouse Seizoen Bretta. Any idea what happened? Should I just let it sit another month or so?
 

thasnazzle

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If you fermented with sacch and brett you definitely shouldn't be bottling any time soon. The brett is going to keep eating at some of the residual sugar, it should get dryer over the next few months. Brett just takes a while when it's stressed and working with sacch.
 

Aschecte

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If I was to do this beer again I wouldn't even think about bottling anytime before 6-8 months and even then i'd be cautious..... And besides Brett works differently when pitched with sacch and it takes a long time for for those Brett flavors to fully develop. Trust me don't rush this beer. It is a great great beer I have won a first and second place with this beer and was less than 1 point away from best of show at one competition. Patience is key with this one but the results are well worth the wait.
 
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I brewed this on 1/26/13 and pulled a sample tonight. Smells fantastic, lots of funk with just a hint of tartness. The taste though... I'm getting a cidery, semi-sweet finish (at 1.004). I brewed this with White Labs Farmhouse Blend II and a started I made with Logsdon Farmhouse Seizoen Bretta. Any idea what happened? Should I just let it sit another month or so?
Like these other guys have said, let it run a little longer. I bottle most of my brett secondary beers around the 6 month mark (brett primaries after around 6-8 weeks). That Logsdon strain should take it down a little lower and give you some cheesy straw funk.
 

Aschecte

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Another tidbit of info about Brett ...... No need to worry about a secondary ever unless you plan to add fruit or dry hop etc.... Autolysis will NOT happen.

Brett unlike sacch will canabalize and eat the dead Brett and Sachh as food for the long work ahead of them. This is the main reason beers like lambic or Flanders beers can remain in primary for a year plus with no problems. So no one gets confused I'm not referring to bacteria which dies off at either a higher ph or as the abv rises. Brett is the roach of the yeast world it will survive almost anything. The longer you leave the beer on the Brett the more the funk will stand out.
 

lunshbox

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Another tidbit of info about Brett ...... No need to worry about a secondary ever unless you plan to add fruit or dry hop etc.... Autolysis will NOT happen.

Brett unlike sacch will canabalize and eat the dead Brett and Sachh as food for the long work ahead of them. This is the main reason beers like lambic or Flanders beers can remain in primary for a year plus with no problems. So no one gets confused I'm not referring to bacteria which dies off at either a higher ph or as the abv rises. Brett is the roach of the yeast world it will survive almost anything. The longer you leave the beer on the Brett the more the funk will stand out.
Indeed. I am repitching a brett trois that is in its 5th slurry iteration. I just keep dumping on the cake. Not Bandaids yet.
 

kevin476

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So, I think I am going to brew this and some other saisons similar to it, I will keg condition some but others I will do a sacch yeast then long brett and then bottle condition with wine yeast, what do you guys add for sugar at bottling after you take a beer like this down to 1.006-1.000? Hopefully I will get to brew this within a few weeks.
 

theveganbrewer

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I happened to have a bottle of Saison-Brett in my cellar ready to be consumed. I wonder, is one bottle enough? Should I make a tiny starter with the dregs first?
 
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When I bottle this, I use Beersmith to calculate 3 vol CO2, and figure that the residual brett will give me more like 3.5 when all is said and done.

As far as making a starter from the Boulevard Saison Brett dregs, I have successfully used a fresh bottle's dregs, pitched at the same time as the primary yeast. If your bottle is 2010 or 11 vintage, you might want to step it up once.
 

AmandaK

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As far as making a starter from the Boulevard Saison Brett dregs, I have successfully used a fresh bottle's dregs, pitched at the same time as the primary yeast. If your bottle is 2010 or 11 vintage, you might want to step it up once.
As another data point, I brewed this last September 2012 and co-pitched 3724, a 2010 vintage and a 2011 vintage and it's pretty funky now.
 

Jdslep

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I brewed this in 9/2012, bottled after two months. Pitched Goose Island Sophie dregs on brew day, and Wyeast 3711 French Saison. Fermented at 68F ambient.

On 2/2013 I brought it to the club meeting and got rave reviews. It came in at 9% abv, dried out to 1.000 but has a thicker mouthfeel. Now in 5/2013: I don't know what the Brett or the saison yeast is supposed to taste like, but I get a lot of artificial cherry, a spiciness on the tongue, and some soft esters (I think). A long--over a minute--lingering taste of cherry and slight funk. Not bad for a first all-grain batch! I used the yeast cake to ferment a nice tart strawberry cider.
 

Aschecte

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I brewed this in 9/2012, bottled after two months. Pitched Goose Island Sophie dregs on brew day, and Wyeast 3711 French Saison. Fermented at 68F ambient.

On 2/2013 I brought it to the club meeting and got rave reviews. It came in at 9% abv, dried out to 1.000 but has a thicker mouthfeel. Now in 5/2013: I don't know what the Brett or the saison yeast is supposed to taste like, but I get a lot of artificial cherry, a spiciness on the tongue, and some soft esters (I think). A long--over a minute--lingering taste of cherry and slight funk. Not bad for a first all-grain batch! I used the yeast cake to ferment a nice tart strawberry cider.
If I had to make a guess you used Brett C which is known for a sour cherry aroma and somewhat a funky sweet taste..... the spiciness was absolutely from the saison yeast you co pitched and the soft esters are probably a bit of the mix.... to me it sounds like a great beer !!! Oh yeah btw it's amazing how this beer feel thicker than it really is !!!! mine finished at 1.002 and it does not seem thin at all !!! Brett is great isn't it ?
 

sbuchan

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I brewed mine back in January, still in the primary. I sampled it a month in and there was a distinct cider taste which is still present 6 months later. The only thing I changed in the recipe was the yeast, I used White Labs Saison II and dregs from a bottle of Seizoen Bretta that I grew up in a starter. Any thoughts? I'm assuming this isn't going to go away after sticking around for this long.
 

Aschecte

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I brewed mine back in January, still in the primary. I sampled it a month in and there was a distinct cider taste which is still present 6 months later. The only thing I changed in the recipe was the yeast, I used White Labs Saison II and dregs from a bottle of Seizoen Bretta that I grew up in a starter. Any thoughts? I'm assuming this isn't going to go away after sticking around for this long.
I disagree if you added Brett in the mix it is just getting rolling at 4-6 months especially when mixed with Sacch strains...... give it 8-12 months to hit it's prime.... certain brett strains are known for fruity esters and saison II is definitely known for high ester production especially if brewed hot. :mug:
 

Aschecte

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ohhh and another thing do not transfer the beer Brett will eat the Sacch and give off more of the brett character ..... do you know what strain is used in Seizoen Bretta ?
 

theveganbrewer

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ohhh and another thing do not transfer the beer Brett will eat the Sacch and give off more of the brett character ..... do you know what strain is used in Seizoen Bretta ?
I've got some here that I'm going to put under the scope today or tomorrow to see what's in there. I'll let you know if I spot something.
 

m00se

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I brewed this 5 days ago and the gravity's down to 1030. It's been fermenting in a swamp cooler set at 86F. I've read about 3724 stalling around this number. Will the brett eat through that and push it closer to 1000 or should I swirl and crank up the heat?

Gravity sample tasted really good! Great recipe. Thank you
 

m00se

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I made a 1600ml starter of 3724 for the 1.060 wort. Tossed in dregs from Saison Brett, Rayon Vert, Anchorage Wit, and Orval. I wanted to really brett this puppy up as an experiment. I took another reading today and it's still at 1.030 9 days in. I've moved the carboy to the warmest room in the house that gets up to the high 80s during the day.
 

Aschecte

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I made a 1600ml starter for the 1.060 wort. Tossed in dregs from Saison Brett, Rayon Vert, Anchorage Wit, and Orval. I wanted to really brett this puppy up as an experiment. I took another reading today and it's still at 1.030 9 days in. I've moved the carboy to the warmest room in the house that gets up to the high 80s during the day.
Hey I know I post a lot on this thread and I hope no one minds and I'm not coming off wrong to anyone. I just wanted to say as I have done many and I mean many Brett beers now to the point that I even have one that has been commercially replicated and sold........Brett works slow to get from 1.060 to 1.039 WITHOUT a Sacch strain is pretty darn good. Do no expect it to work the same it ferments out much slower and different than a standard yeast even though some will claim rightfully so that when used as a sole primary strain will work faster. This is sometimes true in my experience. FWIW I would leave it be maybe a comfortable medium like high 70's not high 80's unless I am missing something and your using a Saison strain in there too then hell yeah pump her up to 90 !!!! just my .02 and btw it all started with me at least with this beer right here !!!! also check me out on the AHA site I am brewer of the week this month !!!!!
 

humann_brewing

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I brewed this or something very close. Didn't go quite so high on the gravity basically but split the wort between straight 3711 and WLP565 + Brett but I also cultured the brett from the boulevards bottle for 5 days so I had a good starter going when it was pitched.
 

Gothic_Horror

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Aschecte said:
Hey I know I post a lot on this thread and I hope no one minds and I'm not coming off wrong to anyone. I just wanted to say as I have done many and I mean many Brett beers now to the point that I even have one that has been commercially replicated and sold........Brett works slow to get from 1.060 to 1.039 WITHOUT a Sacch strain is pretty darn good. Do no expect it to work the same it ferments out much slower and different than a standard yeast even though some will claim rightfully so that when used as a sole primary strain will work faster. This is sometimes true in my experience. FWIW I would leave it be maybe a comfortable medium like high 70's not high 80's unless I am missing something and your using a Saison strain in there too then hell yeah pump her up to 90 !!!! just my .02 and btw it all started with me at least with this beer right here !!!! also check me out on the AHA site I am brewer of the week this month !!!!!
Prost!
 

AmandaK

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this looks promising. I have a bottle of Brett Saison in the fridge chilling now
Quite promising indeed. Stan Hieronymus really enjoyed this beer. Said something to the effect of "the brewers at Boulevard would be happy to know this was made from their beer". He and one of the brewers at Perennial Artisan Ales (St. Louis funky beer brewery) gave it a 1st place in a comp earlier this year.

My version of this also went to the final round of Nationals in Philly. Got 1st in the KC Regional out of 68 entries.

Needless to say, I LOVE this recipe. :mug:
 

studio1one

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I've got a Saison I made with 3711 that will be finishing in a while, you reckon I could pitch the wort onto that cake and then add some Brett dregs to it after?
 

Hoptimistic

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OK so I have never ever fermented at 80° I have been told what to expect with this beer and the Saison yeast but it just seems so weird that the kraussen was so small then pittered out so quickly. it has been at 80° almost two weeks at this point. I've got three more days until the blankets come off and I drop the temperature to 70° in the house. its weird I feel like I'm a newbie again.

I'm just wondering when I can expect to see this start up fermentation again. does it kraussen a second time when the temperature is lowered and the Brett can become more dominant?
 
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Quite promising indeed. Stan Hieronymus really enjoyed this beer. Said something to the effect of "the brewers at Boulevard would be happy to know this was made from their beer". He and one of the brewers at Perennial Artisan Ales (St. Louis funky beer brewery) gave it a 1st place in a comp earlier this year.

My version of this also went to the final round of Nationals in Philly. Got 1st in the KC Regional out of 68 entries.

Needless to say, I LOVE this recipe. :mug:
Hey, that's awesome! Stan's "ok" on this beer is pretty stellar. I haven't entered it in a comp since NHC 2011- maybe it's time to ship it off again.
 
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I've got a Saison I made with 3711 that will be finishing in a while, you reckon I could pitch the wort onto that cake and then add some Brett dregs to it after?
If you're pitching onto a cake, I would add Brett at the same time rather than later. That 3711 is a super aggressive strain. You can still get brett character without a change in gravity, but I feel that you retain more of the saison character if you give the brett a little more feeding opportunity.

I'm just wondering when I can expect to see this start up fermentation again. does it kraussen a second time when the temperature is lowered and the Brett can become more dominant?
It may show a filmy or dusty pellicle and increased bubble activity, but it will probably not krausen.
 

chaseville

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This thread has been a great read and I'm excited to brew my first Brett B Saison this weekend hoping to get the same results ya'll have had.

I have a question regarding fermentation time. I've seen numbers ranging from the usual few weeks to over a half a year in primary/secondary. Is it okay to bottle when the gravity levels out? I plan to bottle condition in 750's at ambient Florida room temp of 77 degrees til next summer. Planning an OG around 1.056 so nothing wild. Thanks for the help!

I should mention that I'll be fermenting with Saison Brett dregs from a bottle of local Swamphead Saison Brett and WLP568. I'm currently stepping up equal parts of the dreg and WLP568.
 

Hoptimistic

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If you're pitching onto a cake, I would add Brett at the same time rather than later. That 3711 is a super aggressive strain. You can still get brett character without a change in gravity, but I feel that you retain more of the saison character if you give the brett a little more feeding opportunity.



It may show a filmy or dusty pellicle and increased bubble activity, but it will probably not krausen.
wierd. there is definitely a second heady foam forming. The two weeks at 80 F were completely uneventful other than a VERY small kraussen, i mean were talking maybe a half inch thick. after inching the temperature down to 70 in the house I added another bit of saison-brett dreggs. (two bottles) at this point should I rack the beer off of the saison cake at the bottom and let the beer finish in secondary? or should i let the beer stay in the primary fermenter for 45 days then rack to secondary to clear?
 
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I have a question regarding fermentation time. I've seen numbers ranging from the usual few weeks to over a half a year in primary/secondary. Is it okay to bottle when the gravity levels out? I plan to bottle condition in 750's at ambient Florida room temp of 77 degrees til next summer.
I typically do 2-3 months and bottle once the gravity levels off.

wierd. there is definitely a second heady foam forming. The two weeks at 80 F were completely uneventful other than a VERY small kraussen, i mean were talking maybe a half inch thick. after inching the temperature down to 70 in the house I added another bit of saison-brett dreggs. (two bottles) at this point should I rack the beer off of the saison cake at the bottom and let the beer finish in secondary? or should i let the beer stay in the primary fermenter for 45 days then rack to secondary to clear?
Huh. I rarely see krausen after adding brett to secondary. I guess I usually use fermcap in primary, though, so maybe that doesn't drop out (or is roused back up again). I'd just leave it on the cake, personally. My "house strain" of brett drops pretty clear once it is done (though there is residual activity in the bottle) so I skip the secondary entirely. YMMV.
 

chaseville

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Thanks for the input.

Also, here is my recipe. Let me know what ya'll think:

1.056 OG, 29 IBU, 6 SRM

5.60 lb Pilsner
1.25 lb Vienna
1.25 lb Malted Wheat
12 oz Flaked Wheat
1 oz Roasted Barley (in the last 10 minutes of the mash for color)
1 lb Orange Blossom honey (at end of boil)

1.4 oz Styrian golding @ 60'
0.4 oz Saaz @ 15'
0.6 oz Saaz @ 2'

If I get down to 1.004 ish I get ~7% ABV.
 

Hoptimistic

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Huh. I rarely see krausen after adding brett to secondary. I guess I usually use fermcap in primary, though, so maybe that doesn't drop out (or is roused back up again). I'd just leave it on the cake, personally. My "house strain" of brett drops pretty clear once it is done (though there is residual activity in the bottle) so I skip the secondary entirely. YMMV.[/QUOTE]

swett man. i was planning on leaving it in primary anyhow. good to know great minds think a like. im currently growing up some more brett. Im not sure if ill need it but i just feel skeptical letting a yeast packet do all that work (1.076 OG) without a starter. have you had any issues with not reaching your final gravity or the beer being too sweet?
 
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dwarven_stout

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swett man. i was planning on leaving it in primary anyhow. good to know great minds think a like. im currently growing up some more brett. Im not sure if ill need it but i just feel skeptical letting a yeast packet do all that work (1.076 OG) without a starter. have you had any issues with not reaching your final gravity or the beer being too sweet?
I like to stress saison yeast a bit. With the 3724 alone I often get stuck ferments, but with the brett I've never had it hang.
 

Aschecte

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If you add brett to a beer I do not care what failure a sacch strain has or what it want to finish or crap out at ..... the Brett will give the Sachh strain the big ol' middle finger and eaat the sugars and then really get nasty and eat the Sacch strain too.... and yes I am serious Brett will eat the Sachh after it has died off zero chance of autolysis well almost zero.
 

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If you add brett to a beer I do not care what failure a sacch strain has or what it want to finish or crap out at ..... the Brett will give the Sachh strain the big ol' middle finger and eaat the sugars and then really get nasty and eat the Sacch strain too.... and yes I am serious Brett will eat the Sachh after it has died off zero chance of autolysis well almost zero.
Mmmm, yummy...Who's gonna eat the Brett? We do!
 

Hoptimistic

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play so it did drop down to about 1.030 according to the eefractometer. I was smelling super good. very bretty (as it should have since I Frank a remaining 3 bottles of Brett Saison that I had and make a huge starter from the dreggs and pitched that sucker in the wort. after [thay it dropped down to 1.027 and was smelling delicious. but i came home today and all the sudden......rhinofarts what happened. dont tell me i used all those bottles of saison brett only to get an infection. i took a sample and it tastes okay, but i cant be sure this is supposed to happen or not. ive never used brettI][/I]
 
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