Brett Beer Saison Brett

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dwarven_stout

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Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Wyeast 3724
Yeast Starter
No
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter
Brettanomyces
Batch Size (Gallons)
5.5
Original Gravity
1.063
Final Gravity
1.001
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
34
Color
5.0
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
14 days @ 80 degrees
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
45 days @ 70 degrees
Tasting Notes
Spicy brett aroma and flavor, some cherry and citrus blends with a hint of malt.
Saison Brett (with apologies to Boulevard - there simply isn't a more fitting name)
BJCP Style and Style Guidelines:
-------------------------------
16-C Belgian & French Ale, Saison

OG: 1.048 – 1.065
FG: 1.002 – 1.012
IBUs: 20 – 35
SRM: 5 – 14
ABV: 5 – 7%
Recipe Specifics:
Batch Size (Gal): 5.0
Total Grain (Lbs): 12.00
Anticipated OG: 1.063
Anticipated SRM: 5
Anticipated IBU: 34
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Grain/Sugars:
10.00 lb Belgian Pilsner
1.00 lb Munich Malt
1.00 lb Clear Candi Sugar

Hops:
2.00 oz Williamette [3.90 %] @60 min (25.6 IBU)
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] @15 min (6.5 IBU)
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] @5 min (2.6 IBU)

Yeast:
Co-pitch Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison and the dregs from a bottle of Boulevard Saison Brett (or Wyeast Brett Clausenii)

Mash Schedule:
Mash Type: Single Step
Grain Lbs: 11.00
Water Qts: 14
Water Gal: 3.5

Saccharification:150 degrees, 90 minutes
Sparge: 170 degrees, 10 minutes

General Instructions:
Mash and boil are straightforward. Add the candy sugar with 5 minutes left. Pitch yeast at 75 and keep it warm for a couple of weeks, then let it sit undisturbed for a month or two until the brett is done. And for heaven's sake don't fear the 3724! I didn't dry hop this beer, but it would be very good with some dry hopping. You could do Amarillo to boost the citrus, EKG to compliment the brett, or more Saaz.

Tasting notes/compliments:
On the 1-year anniversary of brewing this beer:

Aroma: Strong brett nose, some graininess and pie cherry/citrus notes. Muted spicy/floral hops.
Appearance: Somewhat hazy, copper colored with a off-white head that falls relatively quickly.
Flavor: Crisp brett with bread, slight tartness. Some mineral character, some light fruit. Finishes very dry with a slight astringency and lingering brett funk.
Mouthfeel: Medium to light body, good carbonation. Slight astringency
Overall: Good brett character does not completely dominate, but saison character is still muted. Carbonation a bit on the low side. Next time add a few % flaked grain to improve head.

My club keeps asking to trade for bottles of this. There are several guys who started seeking out saisons because of this beer.
At NHC, a BJCP Master judge commented: "Frankly, I would just keep this beauty to myself. Competitions won't do justice to how elegant this beer is to enjoy."
Also, Charlie Papazian liked this beer, so you should go make it now.
 

orangehero

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Have you actually used Wyeast Brettanomyces Clausenii? Any suggestions on the effect on flavor by varying when Brettanomyces is added?
 
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dwarven_stout

dwarven_stout

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Have you actually used Wyeast Brettanomyces Clausenii? Any suggestions on the effect on flavor by varying when Brettanomyces is added?
I have not used a commercial Brett C. culture in this beer. I've used the white labs Brett C in other beers, though, and it gives a similar profile to the Boulevard dregs. I suspect that Brett C is the strain that they use.

Generally speaking, Brett B will tend to give you a more "traditional" horsey brett funk, and Brett L will either give you some sour cherry and smoky funk (wyeast) or loads of sweaty smoke (white labs). I haven't done any of that with this particular beer. I might someday, but this recipe is seriously too good to want to play with right now.
 

smellysell

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I make one that's very similar, but with Brett B that is awesome. I call it Brett Saison so it's slightly different than Boulevard though. :D
 
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dwarven_stout

dwarven_stout

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Charlie Papazian seemed pretty taken with this beer last night at the AHA rally!
 

diatonic

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Charlie Papazian seemed pretty taken with this beer last night at the AHA rally!
I can confirm this. I was standing there when he took his first taste & he asked who brewed it. Then headed over to dwarven_stout to talk about the beer. :rockin:
 

Aschecte

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I'm am doing this as my last brew before my knee repl. at the end of the month. I figure that by the time i'm in better shape I'll be adding the brett c. I am gonna mildy change this up though by adding a small amount of malted wheat. This loos like a awesome recipe I can't wait till Sunday to brew it.
 

thasnazzle

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Going to do this soon with 100% brett c. Working on a starter today.

Converting the grain bill to partial as follows:

4 lb belgian pils
1 lb munich
1 lb white belgian candi sugar
4.5 lb extra pale extract

Also thinking about racking this onto some fruit in secondary - you think cherries would do well? Looking for a nice fruity summer beer but I don't wanna hide the brett flavor behind the fruit.
 

Headley_Lamarr

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I brewed this yesterday but had to make some adjustments due to lack of stock at the LHBS. We'll see how it works out.

8.00 lb Golden Promise
2.00 lb Pilsner
1.00 lb Munich Malt
1.00 lb Clear Candi Sugar

Same hops and yeast/Brett. This is my 4th all-grain. It's nice to see that I'm getting better at hitting numbers and volumes. Plus, as a condo brewer, I'm spilling less and less water/wort on the floor with every batch. I'll prob let this sit in the primary for 2 months.
 
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dwarven_stout

dwarven_stout

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Going to do this soon with 100% brett c. Working on a starter today.

Converting the grain bill to partial as follows:

4 lb belgian pils
1 lb munich
1 lb white belgian candi sugar
4.5 lb extra pale extract

Also thinking about racking this onto some fruit in secondary - you think cherries would do well? Looking for a nice fruity summer beer but I don't wanna hide the brett flavor behind the fruit.
That looks like a good adaptation for a partial mash. Fermenting with 100% brett C (Wyeast) will give you some big tropical fruit aroma in my experience, and go slightly funky after 6 months or so. I think that would be great for this kind of saison. Cherries would be a good addition as well.

I brewed this yesterday but had to make some adjustments due to lack of stock at the LHBS. We'll see how it works out.

8.00 lb Golden Promise
2.00 lb Pilsner
1.00 lb Munich Malt
1.00 lb Clear Candi Sugar

Same hops and yeast/Brett. This is my 4th all-grain. It's nice to see that I'm getting better at hitting numbers and volumes. Plus, as a condo brewer, I'm spilling less and less water/wort on the floor with every batch. I'll prob let this sit in the primary for 2 months.
2 months is about what mine takes. It will obviously continue to develop over time in the bottles as well. Using Golden Promise should be interesting- your color will be close to the same, but you'll trade some pils graininess for a bit of sweeter malt. I bet it'll turn out well.
 

1GR8DA

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I brewed this on Saturday. I didn't take grain absorption into account and ended up with 3.5 gallons. The only problem is I couldn't tell the volume due to the steam in my keggle. My OG is 1.1! Gonna need more yeast.
 

thasnazzle

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Brewed the partial mash I posted above last night; after making a starter last week the brett c kicked off amazingly fast - we have a vigorous fermentation going less than 24 hours after the brew. Kinda surprised, given that the yeast was set to expire yesterday and the starter had been sitting in a closet for a week or so and didn't look like it had been active for a while. Looking forward to this for sure.
 
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dwarven_stout

dwarven_stout

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Any thoughts on using the WLP670 american farmhouse yeast with this?
The WLP670 should work well in this recipe, but I haven't used that blend yet myself. I know a number of other people have had good experiences with it in similar recipes.

I brewed this on Saturday. I didn't take grain absorption into account and ended up with 3.5 gallons. The only problem is I couldn't tell the volume due to the steam in my keggle. My OG is 1.1! Gonna need more yeast.
You could always boil some topup water and add that to the carboy. I'm not sure how this beer would be as a 12% abv monster, but I expect I'd prefer it a little lighter.
 

lpdjshaw

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I know this thread is almost a year old but just wondering about adding the bottle dregs. Would you just toss in the dregs from a freshly drank bottle at pitching time (my guess), make a mini starter with it, add it to your regular starter,...?
Definitely gonna have to try this one this summer, thanks.

Saison Brett (with apologies to Boulevard - there simply isn't a more fitting name)


Recipe Specifics:
Batch Size (Gal): 5.0
Total Grain (Lbs): 12.00
Anticipated OG: 1.063
Anticipated SRM: 5
Anticipated IBU: 34
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Grain/Sugars:
10.00 lb Belgian Pilsner
1.00 lb Munich Malt
1.00 lb Clear Candi Sugar

Hops:
2.00 oz Williamette [3.90 %] @60 min (25.6 IBU)
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] @15 min (6.5 IBU)
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] @5 min (2.6 IBU)

Yeast:
Co-pitch Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison and the dregs from a bottle of Boulevard Saison Brett (or Wyeast Brett Clausenii)

Mash Schedule:
Mash Type: Single Step
Grain Lbs: 11.00
Water Qts: 14
Water Gal: 3.5

Saccharification:150 degrees, 90 minutes
Sparge: 170 degrees, 10 minutes

General Instructions:
Mash and boil are straightforward. Add the candy sugar with 5 minutes left. Pitch yeast at 75 and keep it warm for a couple of weeks, then let it sit undisturbed for a month or two until the brett is done. And for heaven's sake don't fear the 3724! I didn't dry hop this beer, but it would be very good with some dry hopping. You could do Amarillo to boost the citrus, EKG to compliment the brett, or more Saaz.
Edit: duh, I was so excited about this I didn't read the second page and, voila...someone recently asked the same question.
 

menisale

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I'm going to brew a 10 G batch of Saison this Saturday and split the batch between a normal Saison and the Saison Brett.

The Boulevard websites says they bottle conditioned with various yeasts, including Brettanomyces, It looks from this thread that most all that have done the Brett has fermented with the Brettanomyces vs. bottle conditioning with it.

Has anyone done the bottle conditioning? Any recommendation on this?
 

chrisdb

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I always taste it after primary and before conditioning.... and add Orval if I want to attenuate further. Not exactly this grain bill or this yeast, but adding dregs from Orval has finished a few beers that I felt were still too sweet/banana for a Saison ...
of course, I poured the Orval (or two) into a glass and reserved the yeast at the bottom of the bottles to pitch.
 
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dwarven_stout

dwarven_stout

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I'm going to brew a 10 G batch of Saison this Saturday and split the batch between a normal Saison and the Saison Brett.

The Boulevard websites says they bottle conditioned with various yeasts, including Brettanomyces, It looks from this thread that most all that have done the Brett has fermented with the Brettanomyces vs. bottle conditioning with it.

Has anyone done the bottle conditioning? Any recommendation on this?
I recommend staying away from true bottle conditioning with Brett unless you're starting from a quite low FG and bottling in champagne or orval bottles. I just don't trust my hydrometer that far- I've had bottle bombs once on a non-buggy beer, and that was enough for me.
 

Aschecte

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Ok quick question I brewed this back in MArch and it's been a little over 3 months and it's botteling time. This beer tastes awesome from the hydro sample which is .998 and crystal clear I'm actually picking up tons of brett funk though I did add brett c and brett B as well as white labs farmhouse ale blend which also has brett in it. Now that 3 months has elapsed is it advisable to re-yeast this to achieve carbonation ?
 
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dwarven_stout

dwarven_stout

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Ok quick question I brewed this back in MArch and it's been a little over 3 months and it's botteling time. This beer tastes awesome from the hydro sample which is .998 and crystal clear I'm actually picking up tons of brett funk though I did add brett c and brett B as well as white labs farmhouse ale blend which also has brett in it. Now that 3 months has elapsed is it advisable to re-yeast this to achieve carbonation ?
Wow that's dry!

You should be ok without adding extra yeast. I always have been just fine. If you're worried about it, though, it's just a couple bucks for peace of mind.
 

Aschecte

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Well now this is interesting. #1 I was mildly incorrect I forgot to adjust my FG based on temp so my actual FG 1.002 so it is still very dry. I ended up re yeasting it and from a suggestion of our local funk beer expert that all he brews are bugged beers and funked out lambics etc. ( also featured numerous times in BYO and a BJCP master judge ) he recomended I use s-04 even though it's a english strain he claims it will compliment it very nicely and will flocc out very well. So I tasted the hydro sample and wow there arae flavors there that really have no Godly reason to be there. Strong pineapple cherry aroma, Almost cherry quad type flavor as well as for a lack of a better term Tobbaco and sweat probably from the Brett B I added as well. Also has a sweetness that for a 1.002 beer should not be there I have no idea why all in all very interesting I can't wait till this carbs up and I am on a drinking schedule with this one. 2 per month so that will end up being 12 every 6 months so at the end of the batch I will have sampled it "fresh" at 6-12 months 12-18 months and 18-24 months to see how a brett beer ages and when it's peak has been reached. Dwarven thanks so much for this recipe as it was my first brett beer and I can;t wait to see how this ages.
 

thomismydad

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I did end up brewing this with the WLP670, looking and tasting pretty great right now. Thanks for the recipe. I was thinking about dry hopping with a couple of oz of saaz. Any thoughts on how long of a dry hop I should give it? This is my first sour, so I was unsure if a longer dry hop might be necessary. Particularly since I'll be aging the bottles quite a bit longer than usual.
 
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dwarven_stout

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Aschecte, that sounds like a tasty beer! Did your buddy go into any details on what he feels the flavor advantages are of SA04 as a bottling strain? I've not tried that but it sounds interesting.

thomismydad, sorry I didn't see this. I imagine you've finished your dryhopping by now. I like to dryhop until I start getting just a hint of grassiness in the sample, which for me is usually about a week. I've gone longer, but once that grassy flavor pops up it seems to last through aging unfortunately well.
 

Headley_Lamarr

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Well finally cracked one. I got a bit busy, so this sat in primary for 3 months. After 3 weeks of bottle conditioning, I tried my first one yesterday. It came out great. There is a very nice balance of sweet/sour. I could drink a ton of these. I had to use Golden Promise as my local shop was lacking on grain. I highly recommend this recipe.

8.00 lb Golden Promise
2.00 lb Pilsner
1.00 lb Munich Malt
1.00 lb Clear Candi Sugar
 

Aschecte

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dwarven_stout said:
Aschecte, that sounds like a tasty beer! Did your buddy go into any details on what he feels the flavor advantages are of SA04 as a bottling strain? I've not tried that but it sounds interesting.

thomismydad, sorry I didn't see this. I imagine you've finished your dryhopping by now. I like to dryhop until I start getting just a hint of grassiness in the sample, which for me is usually about a week. I've gone longer, but once that grassy flavor pops up it seems to last through aging unfortunately well.
Hey dwarven sorry for the delay.... The biggest advantage he gave me was first off it would floculate highly leaving a clear clear finished beer which it absolutely did. The second was that it would help accentuate the hop profile and lend a touch of breadiness to the mix. I would like to try it to your exact recipe next time and put two bottles side by side to see if there really was any advantage to me adding different Brett strains and the bottling yeast.
 

AmandaK

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Brewing this little guy today, I've had the 3724 yeast forever and have been gathering Saison Brett dregs. So happy I'm finally getting around to this!

Update: Hit my numbers perfectly. 2L starter of 3724 and dregs from a 2011 bottle of Blvd Saison-Brett. Took off in 3 hours. By far the fastest start to fermentation in recent memory.

Really looking forward to this one.
 

humann_brewing

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I like the look of this recipe, looks like the style guideline wrapped up with some brett which is what I was thinking of doing.

I think I'll brew this in the future and split into 2 batches, one with with and one with WY 3711

any comments on water or other general techniques. I see hard water can accentuate the bitterness and dry finish but it already finishes out so darn dry, that may not be necessary.
 

thasnazzle

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I'm about five months out on a version I did of this with all brett c. Some tasting notes from my brew journal:

Incredibly clear golden straw color with an off-yellow head that dissipates, leaving minimal lacing. Aroma is overripe fruit, booze, and a fungal/cheese character that is a part of the overall bouquet instead of the primary smell that it was months ago. Taste begins with sweet tropical fruit yielding to some brett horsey funk that closes with a warm booziness and a sharp bitterness. Next time I'll try this with fewer hops. Mouthfeel isn't as thin as the low FG would indicate, though it is certainly dry.

--

I should also note that this is all in spite of some huge mistakes on my end - didn't do a 90min boil to drive off DMS, so the DMS was overwhelming for a couple of months before it started receding. Also I drastically underpitched, I think - this was before I learned about proper pitching rates and thought that any starter would be big enough, despite the fact that my tube of brett C was almost expired and I only did a 1L starter. That my beer tastes this great is a testament to how resilient this recipe is.
 

GabeSyme

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I was thinking about brewing this without the brett but I realized I have a bottle of Saison Brett aging in my basement! Would it be worth it at all to split a batch and pitch one with yeast+dregs and one with just the saison yeast or is this recipe just too good to change?
 

AmandaK

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I brewed this back on September 9th, and I must say, I CANNOT WAIT to get this guy bottled! I've never used 3724 before, but sure enough, it stalled out at 1.035. I started fermentation at 68, then ramped to 80 over the course of 7 days. Left it at 80 for another week, gravity at 1.035. Pushed it up to 90, and have seen some activity, but I'm waiting until next week to take another gravity reading.

The aromas are heavenly. Pitched bottles from a 2011 and a 2012 Boulevard Saison-Brett.
 

AmandaK

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Bottled this last night. Got down to 1.004 after 2 weeks at 90*. Hydro samples taste amazing. I'll probably have to wax dip half the batch to encourage me to save some to see if this develops in the bottle like Boulevard's version does.
 
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dwarven_stout

dwarven_stout

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I was thinking about brewing this without the brett but I realized I have a bottle of Saison Brett aging in my basement! Would it be worth it at all to split a batch and pitch one with yeast+dregs and one with just the saison yeast or is this recipe just too good to change?
Split it, but I'd do 2/3 brett if you can. You'll wish you had more when you're down to the literal last bottle like I am right now. :p

Bottled this last night. Got down to 1.004 after 2 weeks at 90*. Hydro samples taste amazing. I'll probably have to wax dip half the batch to encourage me to save some to see if this develops in the bottle like Boulevard's version does.
I found with mine that the brett character tends to top out after about 8-10 months. Definitely worth keeping some until then, though.
 

Aschecte

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Without a doubt this was one of the best beers I have brewed. It also recently won a best of show as well as a 1st place in category in two different competitions. Mine was a slight variation but really really damn close. By not saving this beer for at least 1-2 years is a huge disservice to yourself as brettnomyces takes 8 months to fully develope it's charecteristic funky flavors. Don't be scared if a pellicle forms in bottle this is also sometime normal for Brett beers. Patience is key with this or any wild or sour beers but soooo worth it. Best of luck to those who brew this great beer !!!!
 

humann_brewing

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Generally speaking, Brett B will tend to give you a more "traditional" horsey brett funk, and Brett L will either give you some sour cherry and smoky funk (wyeast) or loads of sweaty smoke (white labs). I haven't done any of that with this particular beer. I might someday, but this recipe is seriously too good to want to play with right now.
Thanks for the descriptions, so what would be the descriptor for brett c then?
 

Aschecte

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humann_brewing said:
Thanks for the descriptions, so what would be the descriptor for brett c then?
Brett clausseni ( think that's the spelling) is a close cousin in its true form and a misnomer in some cases for Brett A depending on the mfg. the profile either way is more to the aroma side lending to a cherry or pineapple like nose there is a very minimal amount of contribution to flavor. I personally love Brett c and when I made my version of this beer used Brett c from white labs and had amazing results I highly reccomend using it.
 

AmandaK

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I found with mine that the brett character tends to top out after about 8-10 months. Definitely worth keeping some until then, though.
Well, then I guess I'll have to do another batch soon. It's so good that half the batch is already gone.
 

humann_brewing

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Brett clausseni ( think that's the spelling) is a close cousin in its true form and a misnomer in some cases for Brett A depending on the mfg. the profile either way is more to the aroma side lending to a cherry or pineapple like nose there is a very minimal amount of contribution to flavor. I personally love Brett c and when I made my version of this beer used Brett c from white labs and had amazing results I highly reccomend using it.
Thanks, like I said, I would like to do a 11G batch of this, use Wyeast 3724 and Brett C (from white labs) with half and then Wyeast 3711 with the other 5 gallons
 
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