saison and added sugar

[maskednegator]

Saison yeasts are known for chowing down to 1.020 and staying there for a looooooooooong time. Adding sugar will help to avoid that.

 

[carnevoodoo]

The thing is, unless you're screwing up, you don't need sugar to dry out a saison. Saison yeasts are absolute monsters as far as attenuation goes.

I've got a 7% saison that started out at 1.052. The yeast brought it all the way down to .999 (wyeast 3711 - French saison)

That is such an incorrect statement. "Unless you're screwing up" is just plain wrong. I'm glad you got to .999 and all, but to me THAT is screwing up. I mean at that point you have no body left and you're drinking watery alcohol.

Sugar has been and will be used in saisons. Yes, certain strains of yeast are highly attenuative and all, but with any style you should be looking to achieve balance. Sometimes a recipe just needs some dryness without any additional benefit from malt. It is all about the body you want to achieve, and sometimes malt isn't the perfect digestible because it leaves other things behind.

The Belgians have been using sugar pretty much forever in brewing, and they're pretty well regarded as knowing what they're doing. This debate is just ridiculous.

 

[smiths9312]

The thing is, unless you're screwing up, you don't need sugar to dry out a saison. Saison yeasts are absolute monsters as far as attenuation goes.

I've got a 7% saison that started out at 1.052. The yeast brought it all the way down to .999 (wyeast 3711 - French saison)

Doubtful final reading and saison yeasts are well known for peetering out toward the end of fermentation.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Doubtful final reading and saison yeasts are well known for peetering out toward the end of fermentation.

Unfortunately I don't doubt a .999. I f'ed up a saison this summer that is at .997. Of course, it tasted like pure phenols and only after 10 months is it even drinkable (it is still sitting in the conical in my garage), but it can happen.

It was an odd blend of yeast strains, though and I think it became a fight to the death in there.

 

[smiths9312]

Really? tell us the history of saisons and tell me just when they became high alcohol beer.

pages 95 thur 127 of Farmhouse Ales. (Yvan De Baets)
1900 - > average sg1.040 - 1.050, prior to 1900 average sg1.025 -1.036
Alcohol level was around 3-4.5%
<Modern age>
A saison must therefore be low in alcohol around 4.5 to 6.5%

You can make a case that traditionally saisons were low gravity beers, but currently that is untrue in the US. If you enter a beer in a BJCP competition, the standard you will be held against will be a Dupont or a Hennepin. Saison Dupont ranks in at 5.5% and Hennepin goes in at 7.7%.

 

[EvilGnome6]

Doubtful final reading and saison yeasts are well known for peetering out toward the end of fermentation.

Ever used Wyeast 3711? It's a monster. It took my 1.050'ish Saison down to 1.002. No sugar in that batch, either.

 

[ChshreCat]

Ever used Wyeast 3711? It's a monster. It took my 1.050'ish Saison down to 1.002. No sugar in that batch, either.

+1 on Wyeast 3711. I love that yeast. Total trooper.

 

[Houblon]

You can make a case that traditionally saisons were low gravity beers, but currently that is untrue in the US. If you enter a beer in a BJCP competition, the standard you will be held against will be a Dupont or a Hennepin. Saison Dupont ranks in at 5.5% and Hennepin goes in at 7.7%.

I was making the case that sasions are not a HIGH alcohol beer.

Saison is a high alcohol beer

as compared to the normal Belgian beer line:

It is here in Belgium. Saisons are usually the weakest beer in a breweries lineup over here. After living here for 3 years I consider a saison to be a "light" early in the day kind of beer.

I stand by what was posted.


Now when you start talking about the "super sasions" --> Fantôme,ect than yes they are high alc.beers. But when I think of high alc. its a beer of 9-12%