Safety of Using Propane Burner Indoors

[Søren T]

Well, I'm one of the guys doing it indoors - in the cellar. But I do it with both at door and a window open during the whole process.

 

[brewmonk]

I built a room around the old laundry hookups, will vent through the, ...uh... vent.

 

[rico567]

I have a number of years experience using propane. We use it from a 1K gal. bulk tank to heat our house, the kitchen cooktop, and the water heater. I have installed several demand type propane water heaters over 35 years. We use standard 20 lb. propane cylinders on our grill and on the burner I use to brew in the (detached) garage.

Although we have a CO detector in the house, I consider the risks of burning propane indoors (except for the appliances mentioned above) to be an unwarranted risk, regardless of how much ventilation is provided.

I pass.

 

[brewmonk]

As far as the exceptions "for the appliances mentioned above", does anyone know if a wok burner is available as a kitchen appliance 'add-on' that would be acceptable?
- - -

edit: other than a $6,000 "Mongolian burner"?
http://www.allfoodequipment.com.au/assets/images/products/large/Wok-CW2.jpg

 

[Brewkowski]

How much does something like a temperature of 10F affect the brewing process? I was thinking of boiling in my garage because I thought the temperature would greatly impair the boiling process, is that much of a concern? Other than that I'd be willing to shovel the deck off and dress warm, I just feel better with a big boil outdoors, plus it makes the brew day stout taste better in the elements!

 

[Sawdustguy]

I am not going to try to talk anyone out of using a propane burner indoors. If someone is hell bent on doing it, there is nothing I can do to stop them. I am a former Volunteer Fire Fighter and have wittnessed first hand what can happen when something goes wrong with a propane appliance. However I will share some statistics on the amount for injuries and property damage experienced in America each year as a result of propane incidents:

This is taken from Injuryboard.com. InjuryBoard is a growing community of attorneys, media professionals, safety industry experts, and local activists committed to making a difference by helping families stay safe and avoid injury.

"Barbecue grill fires and domestic propane tank explosions are a major source of personal injury in the United States each year. According to recent statistics from the U.S. Fire Administration, a division of FEMA, some 6,500 barbecue grill fires injure Americans accounting for property loss of over $27 million annually. Nearly a third of these gas grill fires occur in the backyard on a patio or terrace, and another third of these grill fires takes place in America’s backyards. The overwhelming majority of these grill fires result from accidents related to malfunctioning propane gas grills. Mechanical failure or malfunction is by far the leading cause of propane ignition. BLEVEs (boiling liquid expanding vapor explosions) are pressure-release explosions that occur when propane tanks are heated to combustion temperature, and are extremely dangerous."

This does not take into account the hazard due to carbon monoxide. I post this so the OP can make his own decision and so others are aware of the dangers of using an appliance like this indoors.

 

[brewmonk]

Hey, Guy, is that usually when the tank is underneath the grill? My tank usually gets ice on it if I hit it full bore on my weedburner.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Hey, Guy, is that usually when the tank is underneath the grill? My tank usually gets ice on it if I hit it full bore on my weedburner.

Being honest I am not sure. I remember going to fire school when I was a probie many moons ago. During propane night the idea is not to put the fire out but to remove the source of gas. If you put the fire out you risk an explosion. In any case you form an inverted "V" to protect the valve man from the flames and heat and the valve man shuts down the valve. When it was my turn to be valve man my glove froze to the valve handle and I was not going to hang around to collect my glove after I got the valve shut. I wanted out of there quick.

I saw a post by someone earlier in the thread, saying they would keep a fire extingisher handy if they had a fire. It would be a bad move to put the gas fire out. It could cause an explosion. The best thing would be to simply close the tank valve and the fire would go out. If that was not possible I would just get the hell out of there and write the house off and kick myself in the ass for using the propane burner indoors. Propane tank fires are fought by pouring tons of water on the tank to keep it cool so the gas inside does not increase pressure to the point where the tank will rutpure and an explosion will happen. This is done until the gas simply burns out.

 

[springer]

I know people do it but anything over a 1 lb tank is against code for inside use . If you were to have a tank outside and plumbed then you could get away with it if you had a large enough exhaust hood.

 

[brewmonk]

I wish i could afford to have a plumber pull a permit on a $6k N.G. wok stove (with surround).

And even outside I always try to stretch out the propane line as far away from the burner as poss.

 

[Dannypittman]

About 8 years ago, a man blew his house up in Gainesville, Ga. He was cooking meth in the basement with a 100lb propane tank. This explosion left a sizable crater and killed his three kids. The blast shook my house bad enough that I went to see if a tree had fallen on the house. I lived 2 miles away.
Propane is heavier than air, so it seeks low areas. It will sit there until properly ventilated. This is why those turkey fryers and propane grills say "OUTDOOR USE ONLY"

 

[Catt22]

About 8 years ago, a man blew his house up in Gainesville, Ga. He was cooking meth in the basement with a 100lb propane tank. This explosion left a sizable crater and killed his three kids. The blast shook my house bad enough that I went to see if a tree had fallen on the house. I lived 2 miles away.
Propane is heavier than air, so it seeks low areas. It will sit there until properly ventilated. This is why those turkey fryers and propane grills say "OUTDOOR USE ONLY"

More than likely it was the meth chemicals that exploded, not the propane. The turkey fryers and propane grills say, "Outdoor Use Only" because it is illegal to use a bulk propane tank in an inhabited building, including an attached garage or similar structure. I'm sure it also has something to do with product liability issues. I like to keep multiple fire extinguishers around the house. I would rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it. Much like my 45.

 

[Sawdustguy]

More than likely it was the meth chemicals that exploded, not the propane. The turkey fryers and propane grills say, "Outdoor Use Only" because it is illegal to use a bulk propane tank in an inhabited building, including an attached garage or similar structure. I'm sure it also has something to do with product liability issues. I like to keep multiple fire extinguishers around the house. I would rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it. Much like my 45.

I disagree. If the meth chemicals exploded it would have destroyed the home but it would be very unlikely to leave a crater blowing through a concrete basement floor slab. Fire extinguishers are absolutely useless if you have a fire involving propane. Sure you will put the fire out but probably blow yourself up. The only way to put out a propane fire is to shut down the propane.

From the NFPA site:

In any propane emergency where there is fire, flames should not be extinguished unless by doing so the fuel supply can be turned off. If the fire is extinguished and the supply of fuel is not turned off, an explosion hazard greater than the fire hazard may be created.

 

[Catt22]

I disagree. If the meth chemicals exploded it would have destroyed the home but it would be very unlikely to leave a crater blowing through a concrete basement floor slab. Fire extinguishers are absolutely useless if you have a fire involving propane. Sure you will put the fire out but probably blow yourself up. The only way to put out a propane fire is to shut down the propane.

From the NFPA site:

I seriously doubt that the explosion blew through a concrete floor slab and I would only believe that if there was some convincing evidence to back it up. I have no doubt that the house was pretty well detroyed, but think that the floor slab was probably left pretty much intact.

Well then, I guess we can at least agree to disagree on the fire extinguisher thing. I do agree that it would be a good idea to shut off the propane if possible, but that should be obvious to even a child. I think if my house were at risk, I would give the fire extinguisher a try so long as the fire was not too far advanced. There are fires and then there are fires. Some common sense and good judgment would be nice to summon up in such a situation. That's what I usually try to do in that type of situation. So far, it's worked well for me, so I plan to continue that way for a little longer.

 

[Catt22]

"In any propane emergency where there is fire, flames should not be extinguished unless by doing so the fuel supply can be turned off. If the fire is extinguished and the supply of fuel is not turned off, an explosion hazard greater than the fire hazard may be created."

Well, no ****!

 

[Sawdustguy]

"In any propane emergency where there is fire, flames should not be extinguished unless by doing so the fuel supply can be turned off. If the fire is extinguished and the supply of fuel is not turned off, an explosion hazard greater than the fire hazard may be created."

Well, no ****!

Touche........

 

[certaut]

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/detector-lp-gas-parts.htm?source=googleyour local RV dealer sells propane sensors, in retrospect they are cheap.
I would never think of using LP indoors without one ore more of these

 

[Catt22]

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/detector-lp-gas-parts.htm?source=googleyour local RV dealer sells propane sensors, in retrospect they are cheap.
I would never think of using LP indoors without one ore more of these

Good suggestion. I do have a CO detector and a smoke alarm in my brewing area, but I don't have a propane or flammable gas detector installed. I think I will look into getting one though. I'm mostly concerned about the tanks I have stored in the garage possibly leaking and possibly making for a really bad day. I would store them outdoors, but the local meth heads would likely grab them.

 

[Sawdustguy]

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/detector-lp-gas-parts.htm?source=googleyour local RV dealer sells propane sensors, in retrospect they are cheap.
I would never think of using LP indoors without one ore more of these

Make sure you put that detector on the floor at the lowest point. Propane is much heavier than air. Thats why it is so dangerous. People are going to use propane indoors no matter what. There is nothing I can say to change any ones mind. To me it's not worth the risk of burning your home or getting hurt just to make beer. I just hope nothing bad happens to anyone.

 

[Catt22]

Make sure you put that detector on the floor at the lowest point. Propane is much heavier than air. Thats why it is so dangerous. People are going to use propane indoors no matter what. There is nothing I can say to change any ones mind. To me it's not worth the risk of burning your home or getting hurt just to make beer. I just hope nothing bad happens to anyone.

+1 Using bulk propane tanks in an inhabited building cannot be justified under any circumstances. Many of us weigh the risks and do so regardless. We will have only ourselves to blame if something goes seriously wrong. I am aware of the risk and I am very cautious. I would go electric or NG if I had the option, which presently I do not. My brewing area is in a garage with concrete floors, walls and ceiling, so while a fire could be bad, I don't think it would burn down the rest of the house.

 

[rico567]

+1 Using bulk propane tanks in an inhabited building cannot be justified under any circumstances. Many of us weigh the risks and do so regardless. We will have only ourselves to blame if something goes seriously wrong. I am aware of the risk and I am very cautious. I would go electric or NG if I had the option, which presently I do not. My brewing area is in a garage with concrete floors, walls and ceiling, so while a fire could be bad, I don't think it would burn down the rest of the house.

THIS. I use the 20 lb. propane cylinders in my garage, both for brewing and to run the grill. But my garage is a detached Morton building, and with the overhead doors open, there's more than adequate ventilation. I would never brew in a house or in an attached garage. I don't even like the idea of an attached garage, a common convenience that is a storehouse for most of the inflammable / combustible / toxic stuff in the household: gasoline, oil, kerosene, solvents, pesticides, herbicides. Also the constant use of mechanisms that can ignite them: internal combustion engines, electric motors, torches......need I elaborate further? I would never own a house with an attached garage unless I had no other choice.