Rye

[rodwha]

I had been told that about 20% was as much as you'd want to use. I have not had much of a rye flavor with this and have gone as high as 33% with still less than anticipated results.

I'm wondering about an outrageous rye bill consisting of 45-50% using plenty of rice hulls and conditioning the barley to help.

What would go wrong and how can I circumvent this? I've read something about a cereal rest but am not quite clear on how I'd go about this. I'd think the low temp would create a very thin wort, especially if the whole grain bill is done. Maybe I'm missing something though...

Any help?

 

[stpug]

Briess Rye Malt has been said to have the most characteristic "rye spice" quality and should be present in a 20% or more usage. It's my understanding that German rye malts just don't compare in this regard; it's more on the sweet grainy side of things. So far, I've only had the opportunity to use various german varieties but I plan on getting my hands on some Briess Rye Malt just to know for certain.

As far as using half a grist of rye, I see no problem besides the thick body of the beer. Rice hulls can help with the lauter, or you can BIAB and eliminate that potential. Beta glucan (low temp) rest is probably what you'd be after for rye to avoid an excessivly thick body and to help eliminate the lauter troubles. This can be done to only the rye malt prior to mashing in; cereal mash is generally used with unmalted hard starch adjuncts (rice, corn, etc) and would not be needed/useful with rye malt.

...but, it's my understanding that Briess/US Rye Malt is where you'll find that character you're seeking.

 

[andy6026]

I came across this recipe on "NHC GOLD MEDAL HOMEBREW RECIPES 2004-2015":

http://www.alternativecommutepueblo.com/2011/10/ahanhc-gold-medal-winning-recipes-for.html

I've brewed it twice (scaling it down to 5 gallons) and I think it's fantastic. I upped the hops slightly as per the "judges comments", and I substituted US-05 for the yeast. It has 50% rye grain bill.

“Bye Bye, Miss American Rye”

American Rye Beer

Ingredients for 12 U.S. gallons (45.42 liters)


12.25 lb (5.56 kg) Cargill pale two-row malt
12.25 lb (5.56 kg) rye malt
2.0 oz (57 g) Amarillo pellet hops, 7% alpha acid (60 min)
1.0 oz (28 g) Liberty pellet hops, 4.7% alpha acid (steep)
1.0 oz (28 g) Amarillo pellet hops, 7% alpha acid (steep)

800 mL Wyeast No. 2565 Kolsch yeast, repitched

Original Specific Gravity: 1.048
Final Specific Gravity: 1.008

Boiling Time: 60 min

Primary Fermentation: 21 days at 60° F (16° C)

Directions

Mash grains at 150° F (66° C) for 75 minutes. Mash out at 168° F (76° C) for 15 minutes.

Judges’ Comments

“Excellent version. Rye character comes through well. Slightly perfumy hop—would be nice if it were a bit more prominent.”

“Spicy grain character—crisp malt finish. Subtle floral hop character. Tasty rye flavor. A very clean, well-made beer.”

 

[m00ps]

IME, if you go too far past 30% rye, you will end up with a beer that has the consistency of nyquil. Like swallowing mucus. Barely drinkable.

HOWEVER, there is a way around it. Otherwise German Roggenbiers wouldnt be a thing (close to all Rye). From what ive read, you need to do a step mash with a rest at like 122 or so before the sacch rest

 

[stratslinger]

Or you just mash low, and use an appropriate yeast, and you don't wind up with an overly thick consistency...

I just did a Roggenbier that was just north of 45% rye - mashed around 150F, pitched heffe yeast, and it's a very tasty, nicely drinkable finished product.

I've also done a couple rye pale ales - the first with only 10% rye (because I didn't know what I was doing yet and went along with my partner at the time for recipe formulation) and more recently at 30% rye - neither had a very significant spicy character. The first due to an insufficient amount of rye, and the second (I think) due to a little too much crystal. Next time around, I'll try backing off the crystal a little more (no more than 4% or 5% of the grist to include any carapils) and see what I get.

 

[rodwha]

I actually do use the Briess malted rye.

I'm wondering if it's my pale ale having a bit too much hop flavor and/or crystal malt muddying the rye notes. I'll look over my past and present recipe and see what I see. Maybe reducing things to allow it to stand out are in order before I try going over 33%.

I've used north of 20% all along on up to 33% and it's never been thick like cough syrup.

 

[dmtaylor]

IME, if you go too far past 30% rye, you will end up with a beer that has the consistency of nyquil. Like swallowing mucus. Barely drinkable.

HOWEVER, there is a way around it. Otherwise German Roggenbiers wouldnt be a thing (close to all Rye). From what ive read, you need to do a step mash with a rest at like 122 or so before the sacch rest

Bingo! Exactly! Rye gives huge slurpy mouthfeel to your beer. I've brewed rye ales many times with 40% rye malt. It's thick and chewy. It's also NOT spicy, at least not the one I used (I thought it was Briess?!). Don't expect "spicy", it might not be there. Tastes like earthy bread, not spicy.

Go ahead and use as much rye malt as you want and see if you like it. A step mash with 122 F is a fantastic idea to break down some of that heavy body but still get good flavors from it.

Yes it's a good idea to use 1 to 1.5 pounds of rice hulls per 5-6 gallons, as it's very sticky in the mash.

Cheers!

 

[sailipo]

OK guys help me out here. I see the last two hop additions in the above recipe are not boiled but steeped. Exactly how is this done?

 

[dmtaylor]

At flameout, add the hops and allow to soak for a few minutes either before or during chilling. It's all good.

 

[sailipo]

I find that brewing with Rye is a bit of a challenge. When I don't scorch the wort during the boil I get a delicate earthy flavor, not at all sweet. When I brewed my first rye I was expecting something like the flavor of Rye bread, didn't happen. I'm going to brew up this recipe substituting Maris Otter for the pale two row.

Thanks for posting the recipe Andy... , was looking for something to brew up this weekend.

 

[RM-MN]

Hmm... something isn't adding up here. I didn't get much rye flavor with 20% so I went higher...much higher. My last roggenbier had 60% rye in it. The wort was some thick stuff and when I bottled the beer was thick but by leaving it sit in the bottles the thick part settled out and the last few bottles were just a spicy, earthy beer. Go ahead and make your high percentage rye beer but be patient with it.

 

[dmtaylor]

The flavor of rye is way more subtle than most people think. I get the impression that most people who call it spicy have never chewed on a few kernels to give any credibility to their opinions.

 

[stpug]

The flavor of rye is way more subtle than most people think. I get the impression that most people who call it spicy have never chewed on a few kernels to give any credibility to their opinions.

Let's look at the source then, shall we...

Flavor: Spicy Rye
An often overlooked malt, Rye Malt has a unique spicy rye flavor for the production of rye beer

Source: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_RyeMalt.pdf

 

[hopsandhops]

Has anyone tried flaked rye? Ive read that it has a stronger rye flavor than malted rye

 

[dmtaylor]

Let's look at the source then, shall we...

Quote:
Flavor: Spicy Rye
An often overlooked malt, Rye Malt has a unique spicy rye flavor for the production of rye beer

Source: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_RyeMalt.pdf

That doesn't mean their PR person who wrote this description ever chewed on a few kernels and agreed that it was "spicy". Maybe they just say what the consumers want them to say.

 

[rodwha]

The rye wit I had, as well as a couple of rye whiskeys certainly have a distinct rye "spicy" character as does SN's Ruthless Rye at times.

 

[dmtaylor]

In all seriousness.... I think whoever said that rye can have totally different characteristics depending on the maltster and origin, and maybe even seasonal or terroir differences, hit the nail on the head. Also it is highly likely that different people perceive flavors in different ways. Examples:

American hops taste like "grapefruit". But if you actually add real grapefruit peel to your beer, it tastes totally different.

Many people say that saisons should taste peppery. But if you add actual black pepper to the beer, it's a completely different experience.

German hefeweizens taste like banana and clove, everyone knows that. But if you actually used real banana fruit or cloves in your beer, it wouldn't taste anywhere near the same.

Rye tastes "spicy". But, what kind of "spice"? *grumble* I think it tastes like bread with hints of dirt.... in a good way. Add real actual dirt to the beer, though, and you'll get something completely different. It sometimes, not always, to my palate also seems to provide some sort of "dry" aftertaste -- maybe this is what people are calling "spicy"?

I think also that the reason a lot of people think rye is spicy is due to the common association of rye with pumpernickel bread, or the hard little dark rye chips, which often contain caraway seed or garlic or something that is actually somewhat more spicy than the rye itself.

We homebrewers are such a silly bunch. In the end, bottom line: Use some rye in your beer sometime. If you like it, and you think it tastes good, then enjoy it, and maybe brew with it again to see what else it can do for you. It's another hue of bready malt flavor and texture to add to your palette of creativity.

 

[A2HB]

When I think of rye spiciness I think of a kind of a Dr. Pepper type of flavor if that makes any sense?

 

[soulsuit]

I brewed a roggenbier with 51% rye a while back (40% malted, 11% flaked). Even with a step mash it was quite sticky and required rice hulls. If I recall correctly, I did a rest at about 110, 125, and sacch rest @ 152. The resulting beer had the characteristic "slippery" mouthfeel of rye but otherwise wasn't too syrupy, thick but not overwhelmingly so. It was fermented low @ 60-62 with Wyeast 3068. I'll actually be doing a tweaked version of the recipe with BIAB and probably without the flaked rye in the next week or so.

 

[rodwha]

Rye tastes "spicy". But, what kind of "spice"? *grumble* I think it tastes like bread with hints of dirt.... in a good way.

Ah, yes. I would not call rye "spicy" at all. But as it's the descriptor given for the flavor it's what I've called it as well. Quite frankly I don't know how I'd d scribe it in an accurate way.

I haven't used Mt Hood hops in big additions, and so maybe I'm missing it, but I wouldn't call that "spicy" either. But as it's been given this descriptor it's the hop I've been choosing to use in combination with rye.

 

[dmtaylor]

I haven't used Mt Hood hops in big additions, and so maybe I'm missing it, but I wouldn't call that "spicy" either. But as it's been given this descriptor it's the hop I've been choosing to use in combination with rye.

Great example. I myself would describe many German-style hops as being "spicy". What does this really mean? Do these hops really taste spicy? Well........ not exactly.........

FWIW, I use Hallertau in all my rye beers for the same reason.

 

[rodwha]

I'll have to check that out for future brews as I like to explore what I'm unfamiliar with from time to time. Thanks!

 

[andy6026]

Thanks for posting the recipe Andy... , was looking for something to brew up this weekend.

No problem. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Contrary to what one of the 'judges' wrote at the bottom of the recipe, I didn't find this one 'spicy' either. I find it has more of a bread-like taste. It is certainly a foggy looking beer - but not at all unattractive. It's at moments like these that I wish I were a trained taster so I could describe it better.

Let us know how it turns out for you.

 

[dmtaylor]

It is certainly a foggy looking beer - but not at all unattractive.

I find that rye adds a certain gray color to the beer. And it makes sense -- just look at raw rye -- it is definitely much more gray in color than the typical barley or wheat. My beers with high rye content I think are kind of ugly -- this might be one undesirable thing about it.

Cheers.