ruined my beer? not my 1st, but 4th and 5th

[DaveTozer]

Hi, all. I've read all the online topics for 'ruined my beer?', almost always the answer is probably not, but I have. Two batches, back to back, in fact. Now I'm trying to trace down why. I have a sneaking suspicion it's sanitation. Fermentation looks normal (maybe a little quick), but after bottling, I have ZERO head, and a cidery taste. Aging the bottles for over a month doesn't change taste. I've been sanitizing with 'one-step'. I thought this was a sanitizer, and I'm pretty sure I have read that it was, but after reading the bottle, I think it's just a wash. I hate to think of the idea of dumping 85 bottles down the drain, but without any new ideas, I think that's where I'm at. Any ideas or tips?

 

[DaveTozer]

Any help is greatly appreciated, by the way

 

[McKnuckle]

One tip: brew 1 or 2 gallon batches til you get this sorted. Then you'll dump only 10-20 bottles instead of 85! Seriously.

A cidery taste could be acetobacter (like vinegar).

 

[stuknkrvl]

Sounds like an acetaldehyde problem. Here's some helpful hints and places to start. The second attachment is from Palmer's How to Brew and the last is from White and Zainasheff's book Yeast from the brewer's series - both well worth the read. Cheers!

View attachment 1434085246212.jpg

View attachment 1434085262059.jpg

View attachment 1434085293890.jpg

 

[stuknkrvl]

One last tip - I haven't heard of One-Step, but I use Starsan and so do a lot of other brewers. It's a little pricey, but I found out through the forum that it keeps for quite a while if you mix it in distilled water.

 

[DaveTozer]

Thanks very much for the help, guys. Both brews fermented fast and hard, so maybe acetaldehyde? I sure hope the fermenter's not infected, because I have batch #6 in there right now. One thing's for certain, before my next brew, I'm buying some PBW and Starsan, and scrubbing the hell out of everything!!!

 

[mrgrimm101]

One Step is marketed as a cleanser/sanitizer combo. I wouldn't trust it. Get some PBW for cleaning and Star San for sanitizing. I've also used IO-San (iodine based) sanitizer with good results..however the IO-San will stain equipment with its orangey color. I've been using Star San for a while and I love it. Don't fear the foam!

I also use OxyClean Free (green tub) for cleaning and that works well. I use PBW on brew day, and then OxyClean to clean my equipment after use before it goes in storage.

 

[JonM]

What were the recipes and the yeasts? Fermentation temperatures?

 

[kombat]

Fermentation looks normal (maybe a little quick), but after bottling, I have ZERO head, and a cidery taste. Aging the bottles for over a month doesn't change taste.

[...]

Both brews fermented fast and hard

I feel like this is always my answer, but I'm blaming fermentation temperatures for this one. A fast, vigorous fermentation suggests fermenting too hot. A "cidery" taste could be fusel alcohols, which don't go away over time ("Aging the bottles for over a month doesn't change taste") and is detrimental to head retention ("I have ZERO head").

What are you doing for fermentation temperature control? What temperature were these batches fermented at? Perhaps the first 3 batches turned out OK, but the last two were "ruined," because it's now June and the temperature is warming up? Maybe the first 3, you brewed in the winter when it was naturally cooler?

By all means, clean and sanitize everything thoroughly, but I'd pay careful consideration to your fermentation temperature control.

 

[m00ps]

Do the beers taste normal at bottling? Im guessing you may be harboring an infection in your bottling wand setup

 

[Subdivisions]

I'm with kombat on this one. Your symptoms sound like fusel alcohol and it has just started showing up in the late spring months. Look into using a swamp cooler for future batches if you don't have any other way to cool down the fermentation. It's pretty easy to do. Just get a big rubbermaid tub, fill with water and put your fermenter in it. Swap out a 2 liter bottle of ice a couple times a day for the first 5 days of fermentation. You can also drape a towel or shirt over it to wick up some water and blow a fan on it. Evaporation will chill it down pretty well too.

 

[govner1]

One last tip - I haven't heard of One-Step, but I use Starsan and so do a lot of other brewers. It's a little pricey, but I found out through the forum that it keeps for quite a while if you mix it in distilled water.

One Step is NOT a sanitizer. It is a cleanser. Use your choice of PBW, B-Brite (my preference) for cleansing. Then use StarSan for sanitizing.

 

[AndyRN]

Are these all grain batches or extract? Are you using a bucket or glass carboy? Were they fermented in the same fermentor? I have never had an infected batch, and it seems like that's where we like to go first when we have a bad batch, but it may be something much less benign. My only bad batch was due to too high of a mash temp; however, at first, I wanted to think it was an infection.

As others have said, I would switch to starsan, the medium size bottle will last you a long time. A cheaper option than PBW is the unscented Oxyclean and I also mix in a little TSP, I have had very good luck with that in my carboys, blow off tubes, and kegs. I will let it sit for a couple of days, then a very light scrub with a rag or soft carboy brush, rinse, and done. OneStep would like you to think that it is a disinfectant, and it may be due to the hydrogen peroxide it creates; however, they cannot legally make that claim without proving it to the government.

Good luck, you'll figure it out.

 

[brewcat]

This sounds like a fermentation temp issue. How long are you actually fermenting? What were your temps? One Step works with adequate contact time. 2 minutes or so. Never had a problem using it. Next question. What are you priming the bottles with and how? Then look at your recipe.

 

[DaveTozer]

Sorry, went away for the weekend. I'll try to answer questions as best I can. Both batches were 5 gal extract kits, a fat tire clone and a blonde ale from Midwest. Yeasts were safeale (I believe), dry. Did not do a starter. Maybe ferment temps were high, but it was never above 70 degrees in basement, more like mid to upper 60's. Would that be too high, I kinda thought that was ideal? Did primary only, no secondary. Didn't pull gravities, but bubbling stopped and krausen collapsed in like three or four days. Left in fermenter for three weeks total. Then bottle conditioned. I use a plastic big-mouth bubbler, and a bottling bucket with a filler.

 

[slym2none]

You want wort temps to stay in the low-to-mid 60's for most (not all) ale yeasts, but during the most active fermentation, the wort can get 5-8 degrees warmer than ambient air temps. It's best to keep ambient air temps in the 60-62 range, 58-59 for the first week IMHO.

Note - this is recommended for the cleanest ferment. Some flavours from warm-temp ferments are not desirable, some are - dependent on the yeast.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I'm going to jump into this one looking first at fermentation temperatures and then at water. Yes, you can get a bug in your beer, but as was mentioned earlier, I think a lot of beer problems are blamed on infections because an infection is an easy scape-goat. Yes infections do happen. But keep in mind that people have been making really good beer for centuries, long before the invention of modern sanitizers. Reasonable sanitation practices reduce the possibility of infections to almost nil. One-Step will clean your equipment satisfactorily if you are in the practice of cleaning as soon as you are done brewing. Let it set a few days before you clean up and all bets are off. And +1 to the use of StarSan to sanitize everything before it contacts your beer.

As others have said, most ale yeasts do their best work when the fermenting beer is held at 66-68F. That is the temperature of the beer, not the air temperature in the room. Fermentation is an exothermic process. That means it generates heat. If the room temperature is 65F the actual temperature of the fermenting beer may be as high as 70-72F. With many yeast strains this is enough to produce off-flavors in the beer. (Trust me on this one, I've dumped a few batches over the same problem.)

Advice? Get a dedicated fermentation refrigerator or freezer. Set it up with and STC-1000 temperature controller. Put the sensor in a thermowell so it is measuring the temperature of the fermenting beer, not the temperature of the fermentation chamber. If this isn't in the budget, put your fermenter in a space that is at least 5F cooler than your target temperature for fermentation. It only needs to stay this cool for the first 3-5 days of fermentation. After this initial period most of the danger of off-flavors has passed. And with the drop in fermentation activity the beer will be much closer to actual room temperature.

The next issue to look at is your water. Many people are given really bad advice in thinking if the water is OK to drink its OK to make beer with. There can be things in your local water that will absolutely destroy the flavor of your beer. If your municipal water utility gets their water from different sources as the seasons change this can lead to seasonal problems with the beer you are making. (Personal and painful experience speaking on this one too!)

Advice?
Step 1: Pull a sample of your brewing water and send it to Ward Labs in Kearney, NB. For ~$30 they'll do a complete analysis and email you the results.
Step2: Contact your local water utility and ask to speak to one of their water engineers. Tell him you're a home brewer and ask if the sources for municipal water vary seasonally. Is there any chance there might be chloromines in your water. He'll probably be surprised to hear from you but, if he's like ours, will be very happy to help. Heck, they might even send you a water analysis for free. Keep in mind that Chlorine and Chlororomines can destroy your beer. Chlorine can be boiled off. Chloromines cannot, but they can be avoided with a change in water source or your water can be treated with Camden tablets. Other water issues might call for changing the source for your brewing water.

Good water + good fermentation temperature control = reliably good beer!

Cheers!

 

[brewcat]

Sorry, went away for the weekend. I'll try to answer questions as best I can. Both batches were 5 gal extract kits, a fat tire clone and a blonde ale from Midwest. Yeasts were safeale (I believe), dry. Did not do a starter. Maybe ferment temps were high, but it was never above 70 degrees in basement, more like mid to upper 60's. Would that be too high, I kinda thought that was ideal? Did primary only, no secondary. Didn't pull gravities, but bubbling stopped and krausen collapsed in like three or four days. Left in fermenter for three weeks total. Then bottle conditioned. I use a plastic big-mouth bubbler, and a bottling bucket with a filler.

Hmmm... I'm thinking stressed yeast for whatever reason. What temp did you pitch the yeast?

Do you have a fermometer? Those tend to be pretty accurate for fermentation temps.

 

[DaveTozer]

Unfortunately, a dedicated fridge is out of the question for right now. I will be coming up with a decent swamp cooler setup, though. As far as the water, I've been using only store-bought spring water.
I'll throw one final question out there. Is it worth it to try and put the batch of American Wheat that I have in the fermenter now in a swamp cooler, or could that do more harm than good? It's been in there 5 days now, krausen collapsed yesterday.

 

[kombat]

It won't make a difference at this point, fermentation temperature control is crucial for the first 3-5 days, after that it's virtually irrelevant.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Unfortunately, a dedicated fridge is out of the question for right now. I will be coming up with a decent swamp cooler setup, though. As far as the water, I've been using only store-bought spring water.
I'll throw one final question out there. Is it worth it to try and put the batch of American Wheat that I have in the fermenter now in a swamp cooler, or could that do more harm than good? It's been in there 5 days now, krausen collapsed yesterday.

Kombat is right. Temperature control is only critical during the first 3-5 days. And a swamp cooler would be a great first step toward temperature control. Another option is to look at strains of yeast that can handle warmer temperatures. For example, Saison beers are commonly fermented on the warm side. You can make a very good Saison with T-58 and ferment in the mid-70's. Try it with some bitter orange and coriander and you can make a decent Shock-Top clone without doing any temperature control at all.

Cheers!

 

[DaveTozer]

okay, thanks very much for the help, you've all given me some good ideas. Back to the drawing board....