Rookie Extract vs. All-Grain

[bleme]

I would also suggest getting involved with a club. My club has several members who will invite a newbie to their brew day to watch (and help clean up ). My club members also get huge discounts on grain.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/community/clubs/find-a-homebrew-club/

 

[S-Met]

I'm the kind of person who would rather make a sauce from scratch than buy a can of it, just as much for the satisfaction of it as for the quality of the result. So, when I decided I wanted to try my hand at home brewing, extract was out of the question on principle alone.

I question which "principle" you are referring?
While I mostly agree with your above statements, I do have to provide an opposing view.
Do you always make your own ketchup from fresh raw ingredients?
Mayonnaise?
Fish sauce?
Mustard?
Hot sauces?
Marina from fresh tomatoes?
Mill your own flour?
Soup stocks starting from bones/veggies...?
Make your own utensils?
Forge your own steel for your kettles?
Blow your own beer glasses?
I know some of these arguments are extreme (and slippery slope fallacy), but for the sake of example, do you sometimes take a shortcut with a premade?

Point being, I have a lot of friends who love a good beer but many have minimal interest in brewing. So refreshing my original post in this thread, there is no wrong answer regarding extract or AG to brew or begin brewing. But ask yourself the following:
What do you hope to achieve?
What is your available time commitment?
What are you willing to invest?
What other commitments do you have that could create conflict?
How much space do you have to permanently commit?

If I were a new brewer starting from scratch with limited personal support, I would question how much I am willing to invest into a hobby that I may not continue. Dropping a grand or more on a setup used once is only nice to the guy buying it for a few hundred off of Craigslist.

 

[kh54s10]

Point being, I have a lot of friends who love a good beer but many have minimal interest in brewing. So refreshing my original post in this thread, there is no wrong answer regarding extract or AG to brew or begin brewing. But ask yourself the following:
What do you hope to achieve?
What is your available time commitment?
What are you willing to invest?
What other commitments do you have that could create conflict?
How much space do you have to permanently commit?

If I were a new brewer starting from scratch with limited personal support, I would question how much I am willing to invest into a hobby that I may not continue. Dropping a grand or more on a setup used once is only nice to the guy buying it for a few hundred off of Craigslist.

With BIAB, you could argue that because grain is cheaper than extract it is possible to SAVE money going straight to all grain. There is more involved but it is not so complicated that someone shouldn't do it.

If someone wanted to go straight to all grain they would have to take a different approach than a person buying a simple equipment kit and an extract recipe kit. There would have to be some study and research prior to brew day if any success was to be expected, but certainly a doable situation.

 

[mongoose33]

<snip>

If I were a new brewer starting from scratch with limited personal support, I would question how much I am willing to invest into a hobby that I may not continue. Dropping a grand or more on a setup used once is only nice to the guy buying it for a few hundred off of Craigslist.

This was my conundrum starting out--just how much did I want to "invest" in this brewing hobby? I look back and wish I'd made a bunch of different choices, in retrospect, but who knew?

I think it's also been easier to build this up over the last 4 years than it would have been to just drop thousands on it from the beginning.

And yet....I think there was a lot of learning that occurred since I wasn't using top-dollar equipment. I had to learn the processes in a more basic fashion, and I think that helped. It certainly has helped me to see what things were useful to upgrade, and which less so. Is there value starting at ground zero and building up? I think there was for me.

 

[mattdee1]

I question which "principle" you are referring?

Fair question. For me, the "principle" would apply to:

- things about which I am enthusiastic (e.g. beer and food)
- things that are not basic staples or household commodities (e.g., mustard, ketchup, mayo, flour, utensils). I realize these things are not commodities to everybody but they are to me.
- things where a more rigorous/laborious process provides opportunities for a wider range of results that can be personally tailored to what I want (e.g., all grain brewing instead of extract, homemade sauces instead of canned, coffee from fresh beans rather than Folgers crystals)

If the point of threads like this is to provide viewpoints for consideration by newcomers, then the nuances of the decision need to be made clear. Extract is easier and carries with it a lower cost of entry; this is indisputable. It also uses up much less time, which was the factor that compelled me to try it out on multiple occasions. That doesn't mean it's necessarily the right answer just because somebody is a noob on a budget. All-grain has lots of advantages over extract in terms of what can be done with it, and it is entirely possible to successfully jump into brewing at the all-grain level with a little bit of up front preparation. This shouldn't be glossed over.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Moving from extract to all grain was the most significant thing I ever did to change the quality of my beer. Extract 90% of the time had a twang to it that all grain does not.
Try a 1 gallon kit you will know right away if this hobby is for you or not.

 

[jack13]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting with extract, or even being a permanent extract brewer. But since you specifically said you're up for the challenge of going all-grain right away, I say go for it. It's what I did, not even by choice--just worked out that way. But I didn't end up regretting it for any reason.

I seriously doubt you'll keep messing up AG batches (especially with the research you've done including on this forum) and have to go to extract with your tail between your legs. Based on your posts it sounds much more likely that you'll learn very quickly doing AG.

 

[kh54s10]

I personally find it strange, the number of people who say that all grain will definitely make better beer. That has not held true in my experience. I prefer making all grain, but my extracts, is less good, suffered a very, very small difference. I still rate the second beer I made, a Northern Brewer Patersbier extract kit, among my 10 best. In fact I made it in all grain also and to the best of my recollection, a couple years apart, there was not perceptible difference.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Nothing back from the OP yet? Do you have a home brew shop near you? Talk to them if you do. Buy Palmers book too. What are your expectations around a brew day? Are you ready to dive right into a 4+ hour brew day if you go AG not knowing if you are doing any of the steps right?

Starting with extract isn't as sexy as all grain but you'll still get good beer and a good base knowledge of really important things. Extract will allow you to focus on cleaning, sanitizing, transferring, fermenting, gravity readings, racking, bottling etc ( I know I'm missing other aspects). All of these things lay a great foundation that can be carried over to all grain which if you stick with the hobby will make your AG beer better right out of the gate. K.I.S.S.

I think us folk that have been brewing a long time forget what its like to be a complete noob and not know anything.

Even if you go simple AG brewing like BIAB there are still many things that you have to worry about. Who is going to crush your grain? If you buy it precrushed and it shows up poorly crushed what then? Mash temps, pH, hitting numbers and OG, full boils - most stoves can't boil 6.5 gallons, cooling the full batch etc. All things to consider before going AG

I'd cast my vote for extract with specialty grains using distilled water. If you decide to stick with it you can use the same equipment for extract that you use for AG. Just plan ahead with pot size.

 

[kh54s10]

Nothing back from the OP yet? Do you have a home brew shop near you? Talk to them if you do. Buy Palmers book too. What are your expectations around a brew day? Are you ready to dive right into a 4+ hour brew day if you go AG not knowing if you are doing any of the steps right?

Starting with extract isn't as sexy as all grain but you'll still get good beer and a good base knowledge of really important things. Extract will allow you to focus on cleaning, sanitizing, transferring, fermenting, gravity readings, racking, bottling etc ( I know I'm missing other aspects). All of these things lay a great foundation that can be carried over to all grain which if you stick with the hobby will make your AG beer better right out of the gate. K.I.S.S.

I think us folk that have been brewing a long time forget what its like to be a complete noob and not know anything.

Even if you go simple AG brewing like BIAB there are still many things that you have to worry about. Who is going to crush your grain? If you buy it precrushed and it shows up poorly crushed what then? Mash temps, pH, hitting numbers and OG, full boils - most stoves can't boil 6.5 gallons, cooling the full batch etc. All things to consider before going AG

I'd cast my vote for extract with specialty grains using distilled water. If you decide to stick with it you can use the same equipment for extract that you use for AG. Just plan ahead with pot size.

For someone like me, who did a little reading, bought an equipment kit and an ingredient kit. Yes, I would say keep it simple. The original post showed that he already has done a lot more research than most. If someone studies and has a grasp on the process of all grain there is no reason to K.I.S.S.

With BIAB and spring water, it would be almost as easy to brew an all grain beer as an extract. Crush is not a huge concern, efficiency can come later, Mash temperature should be covered already in his research, pH is also a next step. I brewed for 8 years before taking a pH reading (on my last batch) All it told me was that my additions to my RO water was good as is. Hitting numbers and OG are not a great concern right off the bat, Boil would also be covered in his research. Cooling - many options including doing nothing but waiting for the temperature to fall.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

@kh54s10 I agree with most of what you stated. I feel the less variables there are, the greater the chance of success.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... I read "How to Brew" cover to cover before buying a single piece of gear. ...

For those who have yet to read the 3rd (2006) or 4th (2016) edition of "How To Brew", chapter one is written so that one can read just chapter one and start brewing.

And AHA good overview information on various brewing techniques here: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/
No need to read a 600 page book before brewing one's first batch.

 

[ericbw]

Fair question. For me, the "principle" would apply to:

- things about which I am enthusiastic (e.g. beer and food)
- things that are not basic staples or household commodities (e.g., mustard, ketchup, mayo, flour, utensils). I realize these things are not commodities to everybody but they are to me.
- things where a more rigorous/laborious process provides opportunities for a wider range of results that can be personally tailored to what I want (e.g., all grain brewing instead of extract, homemade sauces instead of canned, coffee from fresh beans rather than Folgers crystals)

If the point of threads like this is to provide viewpoints for consideration by newcomers, then the nuances of the decision need to be made clear. Extract is easier and carries with it a lower cost of entry; this is indisputable. It also uses up much less time, which was the factor that compelled me to try it out on multiple occasions. That doesn't mean it's necessarily the right answer just because somebody is a noob on a budget. All-grain has lots of advantages over extract in terms of what can be done with it, and it is entirely possible to successfully jump into brewing at the all-grain level with a little bit of up front preparation. This shouldn't be glossed over.

I think you mean “preference,” not principle. You prefer to use grain.