RIMS tube with electric

[erikn68]

I have a rims tube with a heating element from brewhardware.com. My last batch it looks like a little scorching on the heating element. I had the pump all the way open and the ball valve to let back in the kettle open around 1/2 to 3/4. Tubing is 1/2" ID silicone. I have the PID controller of the Auber dspr320. With the unit, you can specify the heat percentage to be used in the mash output in the program. I set mine to 40% after I noticed heat rising fast, and noticed it was at 100%. Does anyone know what would be an appropriate percentage to use to avoid scorching. My mashtun is a 15 gallons and I do not sparge my all in one. It has usually 9.5 to 10 gallons of liquid before I add the grains. I am just afraid with ball value fully open would get chanelling. For those of you with experience with a rims tube, I would like to hear what you think.

Erik

 

[Broken Crow]

The valve to restrict flow should be on the input to the RIMS tube, not the output. As for the rest, @Bobby_M did a great thread on that controller; Understanding the Auber EZboil DSPR-320
Hope this helps.

 

[doug293cz]

The appropriate max power % for the RIMS will depend on the element wattage, the wort flow rate, the length and surface area of the element, and the cross sectional area of the RIMS tube. All but the first of these factors affect the rate of heat transfer to the wort. The first affects how much heat is being put into the wort. So, there is no one-size-fits-all safe power setting. It will be unique to each system.

In a RIMS, you want to have your power controlling temperature probe at the exit of the tube, and as close to the element (without touching) as you can get. The tube also needs to be mounted in a way such that it is impossible to create an air pocket around any part of the element. The tube also needs to be designed such that wort always flows over the entire heated length of the element.

Once you have insured that your RIMS is configured properly, you want to adjust your flow to the maximum that will not create grain bed compaction, and recirculation blockage or channeling. Once you have done this, you want to set the max power limit on the controller, such that the wort exiting the tube is not more than about 10°F (5.5°C) warmer than the incoming wort. This will eliminate getting the wort hot enough to scorch, and also hot enough to denature the enzymes. If you can't measure the temp of the incoming wort to the tube, then just setting max power to so that output temp never exceeds ~164°F (~73.5°C), when the incoming wort is at the highest mash temp you commonly use, will work.

Brew on

 

[Mac MacFarlane]

Delete

 

[Mac MacFarlane]

I added a second line going to my whirlpool port so I can adjust flow to my grain bed and still have constant flow going through my rims tube. My element is also from brewhardware and I’ve haven’t had any problems.

 

[Tropicpine]

I am also fighting similar battles with a RIMS tube and a DSPR320. My system has 1/2" ID+ from the kettle thru the pump, RIMS tube & chiller with a 3/8"ID return to the kettle.
The following runs well until some form of blockage occurs. If I am not keeping an eye on the system and shut down quick to clear the blockage Im winding up with Kingsford brew as well.

Menu Setting Value Notes
mPRG m1S 125 .
m1t SKIP Skip step to sync alarm
m2S 125
m2t HOLD Raise temp to 125 then sound alarm to put in grain
m3S 125
m3t 1:00 Hold at 125 for 1 hour
m4S 172
m4t 0:15 Raise temp to 172 for 15 min
m5S 172
m5t hold Sound alarm to remove grain
m6S 172*
m6t CONT end mash program and start boil program
bPRG b1S P25
b1t 15 raise to boiling temp and boil for 15 min
b2S P25
b2t HOLD Sound Alarm to add bittering hops
b3S P25
b3t 30 boil for 30 min
b4S P25
b4t SKIP Skip step to sync alam 2 use
b5S P25
b5t Hold Alarm to add aromatic hops
b6S P25
b6t 15 Boil for 15 min
b7S 70 Cool to 70
b7t Hold Sound Alarm to pitch yeast
b8S P0
b8t RND
mSET tSP 1 set deviation from Mash Step target at which to start timer
Eo ON Power output at end of mash program
oSCr 0 Temperature overshoot correction
mOUT 100 Max heat output during mash step
AttE 0 Attenuation constant
bSET bAST 209 Temp at which heater output set to percentage defined by bOUT and above which power output goes to boil step setting value
bOUT 100 max boil output power below bAST
btsp 210 Temp at which boil timer starts
be0 off heating element power after Boil program ends
RELY RL1 COOL
rrG1 ALL
LGC1 rL-C
rLP1 Alon
LAt1 n
SIL1 oFF
AH1 oFF
AL1 oFF
dH1 oFF
dL1 oFF
HY1 1
AP1 S
RL2 StEP
rrG2 ALL
LGC2 rL-C
rLP2 82
LAt2 n
SIL2 oFF
AH2 oFF
AL2 oFF
dH2 oFF
dL2 oFF
HY2 1
AP2 1
Syst Pb 5.0 Probe offset

 

[mabrungard]

I have a rims tube with a heating element from brewhardware.com. My last batch it looks like a little scorching on the heating element. I had the pump all the way open and the ball valve to let back in the kettle open around 1/2 to 3/4. Tubing is 1/2" ID silicone. I have the PID controller of the Auber dspr320.

You shouldn't be controlling a RIMS tube with power modulation. The tube should have a temperature sensor located immediately downstream of the heating element and the element control should be via your PID controller. The temp sensor can't be located in the mash since it can't accurately sense what the element is doing when its located there. The PID needs its programming parameters set so that it heats without overshooting. You can't set the element power modulation to avoid overheating and scorching. There are times when the element power will need to be off for "many" seconds, in my experience.

Regarding the pump flow rate, you won't have to worry about channeling. That's not going to happen. But what will happen is that the hydrodynamic force from the pumping will compact the grain bed and create a 'stuck' mash condition. Brewers should understand that they DO need to limit the pumping rate through their mash in order to avoid creating a stuck mash. I have plumbed a manometer tube into the bottom of my tun so that I can monitor how much my pump is drawing down the head at the bottom of my mash.

 

[doug293cz]

You shouldn't be controlling a RIMS tube with power modulation. The tube should have a temperature sensor located immediately downstream of the heating element and the element control should be via your PID controller. The temp sensor can't be located in the mash since it can't accurately sense what the element is doing when its located there. The PID needs its programming parameters set so that it heats without overshooting. You can't set the element power modulation to avoid overheating and scorching. There are times when the element power will need to be off for "many" seconds, in my experience.

I don't think you understand the mOUT, or max heat allowed during mash, setting on the DSPR320. It limits the maximum power the controller can apply to the element when the controller is calling for max heat. The controller will then modulate the power from 0% to mOUT% based on temperature rather than 0% to 100%.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I am also fighting similar battles with a RIMS tube and a DSPR320. My system has 1/2" ID+ from the kettle thru the pump, RIMS tube & chiller with a 3/8"ID return to the kettle.
The following runs well until some form of blockage occurs. If I am not keeping an eye on the system and shut down quick to clear the blockage Im winding up with Kingsford brew as well.

Menu Setting Value Notes
mPRG m1S 125 .
m1t SKIP Skip step to sync alarm
m2S 125
m2t HOLD Raise temp to 125 then sound alarm to put in grain
m3S 125
m3t 1:00 Hold at 125 for 1 hour
m4S 172
m4t 0:15 Raise temp to 172 for 15 min
m5S 172
m5t hold Sound alarm to remove grain
m6S 172*
m6t CONT end mash program and start boil program
bPRG b1S P25
b1t 15 raise to boiling temp and boil for 15 min
b2S P25
b2t HOLD Sound Alarm to add bittering hops
b3S P25
b3t 30 boil for 30 min
b4S P25
b4t SKIP Skip step to sync alam 2 use
b5S P25
b5t Hold Alarm to add aromatic hops
b6S P25
b6t 15 Boil for 15 min
b7S 70 Cool to 70
b7t Hold Sound Alarm to pitch yeast
b8S P0
b8t RND
mSET tSP 1 set deviation from Mash Step target at which to start timer
Eo ON Power output at end of mash program
oSCr 0 Temperature overshoot correction
mOUT 100 Max heat output during mash step
AttE 0 Attenuation constant
bSET bAST 209 Temp at which heater output set to percentage defined by bOUT and above which power output goes to boil step setting value
bOUT 100 max boil output power below bAST
btsp 210 Temp at which boil timer starts
be0 off heating element power after Boil program ends
RELY RL1 COOL
rrG1 ALL
LGC1 rL-C
rLP1 Alon
LAt1 n
SIL1 oFF
AH1 oFF
AL1 oFF
dH1 oFF
dL1 oFF
HY1 1
AP1 S
RL2 StEP
rrG2 ALL
LGC2 rL-C
rLP2 82
LAt2 n
SIL2 oFF
AH2 oFF
AL2 oFF
dH2 oFF
dL2 oFF
HY2 1
AP2 1
Syst Pb 5.0 Probe offset

I don't think the controller settings are the problem. Just about any RIMS will scorch wort if the flow gets blocked. It's the weakest characteristic of a RIMS. That said, you might be able to give yourself more time to react to a blockage by setting mOUT to a lower value, as you don't need anywhere near 100% output to maintain mash temps. The trade off is reducing mOUT will slow down heating between rests in a step mash. You'll have to optimize this for yourself.

Brew on

 

[mabrungard]

I don't think you understand the mOUT, or max heat allowed during mash, setting on the DSPR320. It limits the maximum power the controller can apply to the element when the controller is calling for max heat. The controller will then modulate the power from 0% to mOUT% based on temperature rather than 0% to 100%.

Oh, I understand that feature. I'm telling you that it is incapable of protecting the wort from scorching. The unit needs to be in full PID mode and calibrated to the heating and flow characteristics of the system, to have any hope of avoiding scorching. PWM mode will still scorch the wort.

 

[doug293cz]

Oh, I understand that feature. I'm telling you that it is incapable of protecting the wort from scorching. The unit needs to be in full PID mode and calibrated to the heating and flow characteristics of the system, to have any hope of avoiding scorching. PWM mode will still scorch the wort.

When mOUT is active, the DSPR is in temp control mode (its equivalent of PID mode, as according to Auber, it doesn't use a PID algorithm. It also doesn't use PWM.) My point was that it might take longer to scorch, in the case of blocked flow, if the DSPR was controlling between say 0 - 40% power, rather than 0 - 100% power.

Brew on