RIMS tube advice

[arla]

I'm an all-grain brewer, with a 10 gallon cooler Mash-Tun, and thinking to move into RIMS setup to allow for more options when I'm mashing (doing 5 gallon batches).

As of now I have purchased the following parts as I slowly move towards a RIMS setup, the new IPB-16 Inkbird PID, and a Chugger Pump

Now on to the RIMS tube, right now I'm looking at the Brewers Hardware tube, whether 1.5" or 2" with the element adapter utilizing 110volt circuit for the heater

Does anyone have a similar setup, any thoughts from anyone who has those (or similar), recommendations on the 2" vs the 1.5", I've searched (and searched) trying to find info, but not finding anything much, beyond that the 1.5" seems tight for an element.

From what I understand of advice it seems like I'd have the following flow diagram

Cooler Mash Tun -> Pump -> Valve -> RIMS Tube -> Cooler

Also any recommendations on how you control flow back into a mash-tun, to date I've not really been doing mash-outs, but with a RIMS system that seems like more of a possibility, but drilling a hole into the grain-bed with a flow of wort seems bad. I'm wondering about just a CIP ball as an easy method that I could connect to the end of a hose, but I'd love to hear what others are doing.

 

[Boise1024]

I'm running a 1650w element in a 20" by 1.5" tri-clover RIMS tube, controlled by an IPB-16. I first tried with a 4500w 240v element at 110v, and brewing outside during canadian winter was stretching it a bit much...

I do use your proposed flow diagram, with the temperature probe in a thermowell at the exit end of the RIMS tube. I flow the wort back in the mash tun (not a cooler, using a stainless 15gal vessel for this) using SS Brewtech's manifold (https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/re-circulation-manifold-for-infussion-mash-tuns). It works really well and I can recirculate at full throttle on my chugger pump without issue. Ony time I had to throttle was with a 65% wheat beer without rice hulls, pump was cavitating. I am guessing with some careful arrangement you could get by using only a silicon tube if you're careful about keeping a lot of wort on top of the grains.

I usually make 10 gallon batches where the 1650w elements does a great job maintaining temp even at 0f outside. Forget about step mashing, in my experience it takes way too long to raise that volume of water using this amount of power. May be more realistic in a cooler where everything is insulated, especially with 5 gal batches.

I've not experienced scorching but the element needs a good cleaning after each batch, some stuff gets caked on there. Make sure you use the lowest watt density element you can. You do need to be carefull about having flow before plugging it in.

I did have some trouble fitting my element in the 1.5 inch tube, it needed a bit of persuation to bend it so that it didn't touch on the side of the tube. Depending on price, the 2" tube may be easier to word with. It wasn't a big deal and is quite easy to do, and in fact my 4500w element didn't need any bending at all, only the 1650w.

Feel free to ask if you need more advide.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I use a setup similar to this, and your flow diagram is pretty typical. You control the return of flow to the Mash tun by using the valve attach to the pump, prior to the element. There are a lot different things to use as a sparge arm, and if you use a CIP for sparging than I would use one that has a fixed spray.

I have a 1.5" tri-clover RIMS tube, and yes my fold back 2000w element touches the side (barely). I think bhardware now has a 2200w element, which will pretty much max out a 110v/20A circuit.

Here are my opinions on tube size...
1. I feel that since the element is grounded that it may safer to be touching the side of the RIMS tube. Since, the outside of the element is not electrified it doesn't really matter. As long as your element and RIMS tube is grounded, then it is safe with a GFCI outlet. If current leaks out, and you are grounded then your outlet will break the circuit. And being the safe electric brewer that you are, you will be using a GFCI outlet...
2. Another reason to have a smaller diameter is that it will increase wort flow through the tube, and thus decrease the chance of scorching.

 

[arla]

Thanks for both the responses, given that I'm struggling to find a 2" Tri-Clamp Thermowell I may just go for the 1.5" one and call it good, nice to know the input around having too low flow rate because of the larger size, I'd assumed the larger size would cause less scorching, but hadn't considered flow.

What kind of heat uprate can you get GoeHaarden? Curious whether this could be used for multi-step mashing/mash-out of is that just a pipe dream (ha)

 

[GoeHaarden]

Thanks for both the responses, given that I'm struggling to find a 2" Tri-Clamp Thermowell I may just go for the 1.5" one and call it good, nice to know the input around having too low flow rate because of the larger size, I'd assumed the larger size would cause less scorching, but hadn't considered flow.

What kind of heat uprate can you get GoeHaarden? Curious whether this could be used for multi-step mashing/mash-out of is that just a pipe dream (ha)

I use it for both multi-step mashing and mashing-out. I do 5 gallon batches and I average about ~2F/min in rise with a PID, which I feel is plenty fast for this purpose. I'm sure this can vary depending on how aggressive you have your PID settings and what element you're using. I'm limited to 120v right now and I use a 2000W element which still gives me room for pumps and other things on a 20A circuit.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have advice, I would go with the smaller diameter rims so more liquid passes over the element surface on each pass with more consistent movement (less chance of scorching as mentioned above). It makes zero difference whether the element touches or not (its already doing so at the base and liquid is conductive so the electrical safety difference doesnt exist). I would find the lowest watt density element you can find (longest that works).

Also (this is the most important piece of advice I can give when it come to the rims) faster flow is NOT better running the pump too fast contributes to stuck flow and inconsistent flow issues as well as channeling through the grainbed and with such a short rims the rims doesnt get enough contact time with the liquid as it passes through to heat it evenly. I have experimented and built 4 different types of rims starting with a small 800w version and now use an 1800w rims with a 36" long cartridge heater and I set my flow at about 1.8 gallons perminute on a flow meter so the pid can be tuned for a consistent flow rate. I NEVER have stuck flow issues this way and now average 91% efficiency. I do not even use an insulated mash tun and this is more than enough power and flow for 11 gallon batches of beer. I can also step mash, raising my mash about 2 degrees per minute this way.(There is a time lage obviously before the temp rise has traveled from the top to the bottom of the mash tun grainbed)
I use small 3.2gallon per minute flow rate 24v dc pumps and found I actually have no reason to go with anything stronger as the lower flow works better for this scenerio. I never use rice hulls (did once to see what I was missing- nothing) and since the element I use is such low watt density it stays completely clean after each brew with no buildup as long as I rinse it with water right after use. I also have zero fears of denaturing any enzymes . Ive been brewing a few years on this setup... theres info and pics towards the end of my build thread below if your looking for ideas. I used 1" stainless pipe and camlocks to build the rims.

 

[arla]

Thanks for the additional thoughts augiedoggy, does the length of the tube also play into it? From reading it seems like the basic plan would be get the shortest tube that will hold the element I'm intending to use? Right now I'm looking at the 1500w long element that brewhardware.com has (although currently out of stock), it's either that, or the 5500w 240v element, that I then plug into 120v (so getting approx 1400w). I've not yet been to a local home-depot or Ace to check what they have for elements, but the fact that brewhardware will connect it all together for a relatively cheap fee has some appeal (not that I can't, or wouldn't do it myself, just sometimes nice not to have to do these things).

Thanks for the tip about flow meter, I'll have to look at what flow-meters I can get, don't have one today ideally I'd find a tri-clover one, since the rest of my kit is tri-clover, but will see what I can find.

 

[augiedoggy]

The size of the rims should be as close to element length as possible because for safety reasons the element temp probe should be near the end of the element. The longer the heating element the longer the contact time per pass and this alos usually means a lower watt density so the heating action is more gentle which is less likely to denature enzymes in the mash which is a bad thing for efficiency.

 

[augiedoggy]

A shorter rims will work but a longer one has more advantages and things are less likely to possibly go wrong is all.