Revolution Fist City Clone

[cyanmonkey]

I just tried this for the first time yesterday and want to clone it. They list the flavor hops and part of the malt bill. I emailed the brewery asking if they might be able to disclose anything and I haven't received a response, yet. I put this together and was wondering if anyone might have some input.

Description : It is brewed with lots of 2 row and red wheat with a little specialty malt for a beautiful golden hue. A blend of Centennial, Citra, Chinook, Cascade and Crystal hops give the beer its flavor and aroma. This beer is meant to be a supremely drinkable brew for those who love hops. Magnificent California hop aromas play in perfect harmony with this brew’s extremely satisfying finish.

40 IBU

Recipe: Fist City
Brewer: Birdhaus
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.20 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 6.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.0 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat, Red (Cargill) (2.9 SRM) Grain 2 13.6 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.1 %
4.0 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) Grain 4 2.3 %
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 28.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 3.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 5.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Crystal [3.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 1.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [124 Yeast 10 -
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 3.76 gal of water at 168.5 F 153.0 F 60 min

 

[Brewenstein]

Did you brew this? Any changes to your recipe? My brew club has cloning this as a competition next year, so I will be gearing up to do multiple brews to get it as close as possible.

 

[cyanmonkey]

I brewed it once and it was pretty close. I would use 001 or 1056. 1272 was too English, but it's definitely a good starting point.

 

[Brewenstein]

I brewed it once and it was pretty close. I would use 001 or 1056. 1272 was too English, but it's definitely a good starting point.

Cool - thanks!

 

[cyanmonkey]

Cool - thanks!

Let me know what you come up with!

 

[Brewenstein]

Let me know what you come up with!

Brewed this today. Same grain bill as you, except no carapils.

Did a 45 minute boil with hops as follows:

.5 oz chinook at 45 min
.5 oz centennial at 15 min
1 oz cascade at 15 min
2 oz crystal at FO
2 oz citra at FO

Not sure yet if I will DH. Going to sample it in a couple weeks and decide then.

 

[cyanmonkey]

It's a pretty solid hop schedule. Sounds like a damn good beer!

 

[Brewenstein]

It's a pretty solid hop schedule. Sounds like a damn good beer!

Thanks. I found another clone recipe somewhere on line, and the grain bill was very similar to yours, so I went with yours. I bought some Fist City to taste while working on the recipe, and got a good aroma of Citra from it, and a taste of something else. While out for dinner with the family, my daughter had a beer that listed Crystal hops as being predominate in the beer, and I thought that this is what I had tasted in the Fist City. So that's why I decided to drop a couple ounces of each at FO. I didn't really taste any of the other hops, especially Chinook, (or not that I could pinpoint) so that's why I placed them in the boil as I did. Now for the waiting to be over.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Thanks. I found another clone recipe somewhere on line, and the grain bill was very similar to yours, so I went with yours. I bought some Fist City to taste while working on the recipe, and got a good aroma of Citra from it, and a taste of something else. While out for dinner with the family, my daughter had a beer that listed Crystal hops as being predominate in the beer, and I thought that this is what I had tasted in the Fist City. So that's why I decided to drop a couple ounces of each at FO. I didn't really taste any of the other hops, especially Chinook, (or not that I could pinpoint) so that's why I placed them in the boil as I did. Now for the waiting to be over.

I'd do the dry hop. It was very hoppy during fermentation, but I'd be surprised if they didn't dry hop.

That said, I'd add a bit of complexity aside from 2 oz. of citra @ dry hop...

...I might have to brew this again...

 

[cyanmonkey]

Thanks. I found another clone recipe somewhere on line, and the grain bill was very similar to yours, so I went with yours. I bought some Fist City to taste while working on the recipe, and got a good aroma of Citra from it, and a taste of something else. While out for dinner with the family, my daughter had a beer that listed Crystal hops as being predominate in the beer, and I thought that this is what I had tasted in the Fist City. So that's why I decided to drop a couple ounces of each at FO. I didn't really taste any of the other hops, especially Chinook, (or not that I could pinpoint) so that's why I placed them in the boil as I did. Now for the waiting to be over.

So how'd this end up?

 

[Brewenstein]

Kegged it last night with an ounce of crystal for DH. Will give the official tasting update in a couple of days.

 

[BoostEd6]

Very interested in hearing how this turned out. I'm a big fan of rev brew. Going to try and clone anti-hero and rosa at some point.

 

[Brewenstein]

It's been a couple days and it's not fully carbed, but it is pretty good. I'm going to give it a few more days and do a side by side comparison. I will post more then.

 

[Brewenstein]

Had time to do a side-by-side today.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1460315267.449339.jpg

As you can see, the color pretty much spot on. As I continued to drink them I noticed that the real one was a little more clear / less hazy. Both had a nice tight white head.

The FC had more aroma. Not in your face, but more. I did not DH in the FV, but chose to do it in the keg. I was being lazy and wanted to get it kegged because a month had gone by since it was brewed. I only used an ounce of crystal for the keg hop.

The FC had more hop flavor and tasted "sweeter". Also a little more citrusy. I think that perhaps Citra should be added to the DH and maybe a little centennial as well. Next time I will DH in a secondary and go 1.5 oz each of crystal and Citra.

Overall the bitterness seemed equal, which makes sense because the IBUs were the same.

Although my clone didn't have quite as much hop flavor, it still is a good APA. FC has something in the taste that I am not totally crazy about. I assume it is the crystal hops since I have never used them before. But as I mentioned in my first post to this thread, cloning this is for my brew club's November competition, so I will tweak the hop schedule and keep this thread updated.

 

[cyanmonkey]

What temp did you mash at? Maybe cut back on the wheat should help sweeten it up a bit. I didn't do a side by side, but I wonder if in your case some of the hop flavor dropped out after a month in primary?

 

[Brewenstein]

What temp did you mash at? Maybe cut back on the wheat should help sweeten it up a bit. I didn't do a side by side, but I wonder if in your case some of the hop flavor dropped out after a month in primary?

Mashed at 150, but was shooting for 152. Next time I will go for 154. I find most of my beers lose the "green" taste at week 3-4 after brewing, so I don't think that is the reason for less hop flavor. I will go for a few more late additions, and perhaps some centennial also at FO. And a larger DH for sure.

 

[Brewenstein]

Re-brewing this today. Decided to shoot for a 156 mash temp, but actually hit 158. I decided to let it ride. The only hop changed I made was to add 2 ounces of Centennial at FO. I will DH with more hops this time. I am going to wait until I sample it in a couple weeks to decide. Right now it will definitely be some crystal, and possibly Centennial. I will update as I go.

The first version seemed to get better the longer it was in the keg and was a very good pale ale, just not quite Fist City.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Can you post your current hop schedule? I'll have to try this again in the near future.

 

[Brewenstein]

Can you post your current hop schedule? I'll have to try this again in the near future.

.5 oz chinook at 45 min
.5 oz centennial at 15 min
1 oz cascade at 15 min
2 oz crystal at FO
2 oz citra at FO
2 oz. centennial at FO

 

[cyanmonkey]

Any update on this?

 

[Brewenstein]

Kegged it yesterday. Smelled good. Made few mistakes with the brew day. First I hit a 158 mash temp. Was shooting for 156. I figured it was no big deal. Hit my OG. FG came in at 1.020 . I guess too high of a temp really does affect FG, haha. I re-used some of the yeast cake from a previous brew, and when I do, I usually put a tablespoon of bread yeast in the boil at 15 min. for yeast nutrient. Forgot to do that, so I boiled it up in a cup of water and added it to the chilled wort. Made it really cloudy, and it didn't clear up after fermentation either. So we will see. As I said, it tasted ok when I checked it at DH time. Maybe a little yeasty. I decided to DH with 2 oz. of Crystal this time, and in the FV instead of the keg. I had it 35 PSI for 24 hours and turned it down to 12 PSI today. I'll give it a couple more days and do a taste test.

I bought a 6er of FC the other day before DH so I try to dial it in better, and I noticed that it appeared to be a little lighter this time, and crystal clear. Last time I had it, it was a little hazy. Thought that was interesting.

 

[Brewenstein]

So just a quick update.

I hit the keg with 35 PSI for 24 hours, then dropped it 12 PSI. Decided to have taste before work today (working evenings/nights). After dispensing the first 8-10 ounces of gunk, I poured a half pint. It is very hazy (think NE IPA), but not murky. Color is nice, sort of like OJ. Smells great. Taste is very good, but still a little vegetal from the DH. I expect this to fade with a few more days of aging. Mouthfeel was good, carbonation was fine, and it did not have any excess sweetness which I was expecting due to the higher FG (1.020). I did not pour a real FC because of work, but I will this weekend and update further. Overall it is a solid pale ale and I am looking forward to seeing how it "matures" in the next week or so and to the comparison with the real thing.

 

[cyanmonkey]

1.020 is pretty high. Maybe bitterness balances it out. Looking forward to brewing this again soon.

 

[Brewenstein]

I have been working nights, so I haven't had much time to compare the clone to the real thing. But yesterday I said screw it and sat down at noon for a comparison.

Color - The clone is a bit darker and also has more haze. The recipe is the same as before, so this confused me a bit. However, the last time, the FC was hazy and this time it is clear. Perhaps they changed something?

Head - Very similar - white and small bubbles. The clone had better retention and lacing than the FC.

Smell - Really close between the two. FC was slightly "brighter", if that even makes sense.

Taste - At first taste FC seemed a bit tart / sour, but that subsided upon subsequent tastes. The clone did not have this. This time the clone had a slightly thicker mouthfeel than FC, which attribute to the high mash temp. But both were good. Hops tasted came through in both, perhaps slightly more in the FC, but not by much. Overall the taste was very similar. I do think the FC still has a bit more Crystal hops than my clone, or perhaps their hop schedule is different. As they warmed up a bit, the FC seemed to get the tart / sour note back and the clone did not. And by tart / sour, I mean very slight.

Overall, I would say that I preferred the clone over the FC. FC is a good pale ale, but not one that I would buy regularly. But this exercise is to clone it for a competition, so I will soldier on and have to suffer drinking my experiments !

For the next version, I am going to use more crystal in the late boil and probably keep everything else the same. And mash at 155 - 156. Still puzzled about the color difference though. I will give that some thought before the next brew.

 

[cyanmonkey]

I wonder if they just have better quality hops or if it's because they're brewing and packaging on professional equipment.

Could be a variation of the crop regarding color? Weighed out incorrectly? Who knows.

I wonder about the ages of FC between the two batches you bought. When's your competition?

 

[Brewenstein]

I wonder if they just have better quality hops or if it's because they're brewing and packaging on professional equipment.

Could be a variation of the crop regarding color? Weighed out incorrectly? Who knows.

I wonder about the ages of FC between the two batches you bought. When's your competition?

Not sure about the hops. I'm sure the quality may be different, but I bought all of the hops for this from Hops Direct, so I would think that they are of good quality.

As far as color, I really don't know. I looked back at my first batch comparison, and the color was right on. It looks my beer is the one that changed from the previous one, but I used all of the same grains.

Don't know about the age differences of the FC I bought, but that is a good point.

Competition is in November, so hopefully I can brew it twice more before then. At least once more and then the batch for the comp.

 

[Brewenstein]

And a pic of the first version vs the second. New version in on the left. First one was kegged and the last bit was bottled from the keg, so it is much clearer because of the longer time for yeast to settle. Overall, I think the color would be close if they both were clear, so I'm leaning towards FC being different than the first 6 pack I bought.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468194423.642513.jpg

Second one has more DH flavor, which makes sense because I used 3 oz total instead of one.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Just had one. If I rebrewed, I'd mash at 150 and throw everything in at whirlpool, fairly heavy on Crystal, leaning on a lot of centennial and less cascade. Dry hop with citra.