Replacing Lines. What Type??

[Bigarcherynut]

I've posted earlier about a complete kegging system I came across. I've been cleaning everything up and have remove all the old lines. A person suggested I replace the lines and after looking at the ones came with the system agree. They are nasty looking.

He mentioned using Bev Seal Ultra. I began searching and haven't hit a good thread on this. I've read a little on the Bev Seal Ultra, the Ultra Barrier, the silver lined along with the standard vinyl tubing. It appears all need to be replace over time. With that said does it make sense to buy the higher priced lines? Pros and cons on all the types.

Was getting mixed reviews on all of them.

Thanks much.

 

[day_trippr]

I recommend the Bev Seal Ultra Series 235 line in what they sell as 3/16" ID (it's actually 1/5"). It is a stiffer line than the typical solid PVC (the near ubiquitous standard Bevlex 200) but it's manageable, and the best way to implement it is with John Guest push-to-connect fittings at both ends rather than trying to stretch the line over a barb. Its primary benefit (and it's a non-trivial one) is its PET liner which has a far higher resistance to oxygen permeation than anything else you can obtain.

I can't recommend the "Ultra Barrier Silver" as it uses a proprietary plastic compound that has no published characteristics - and has not been a stellar performer taking the breadth of user input.

Standard vinyl (again, Bevlex 200) is cheap and easy to work with, but it permits oxygen ingress like a sieve, so beer standing in the line will go stale in a day. And it can impart a plastic character that some folks will never notice, some folks will, and the really sensitive will switch to the 235 line.

A last detail about that Series 235 line: between the 1/5" ID and the slick PET liner you will find you need to use at least 50% longer lines than a proper 3/16" ID PVC installation. While the rule of thumb for the latter is one foot of 3/16" ID line per PSI of CO2 used for dispensing, the former needs more like 1.5 feet. I've read of Series 235 users happily running 18 foot lines at 12 psi...

Cheers!

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I recommend the Bev Seal Ultra Series 235 line in what they sell as 3/16" ID (it's actually 1/5"). It is a stiffer line than the typical solid PVC (the near ubiquitous standard Bevlex 200) but it's manageable, and the best way to implement it is with John Guest push-to-connect fittings at both ends rather than trying to stretch the line over a barb. Its primary benefit (and it's a non-trivial one) is its PET liner which has a far higher resistance to oxygen permeation than anything else you can obtain.

I can't recommend the "Ultra Barrier Silver" as it uses a proprietary plastic compound that has no published characteristics - and has not been a stellar performer taking the breadth of user input.

Standard vinyl (again, Bevlex 200) is cheap and easy to work with, but it permits oxygen ingress like a sieve, so beer standing in the line will go stale in a day. And it can impart a plastic character that some folks will never notice, some folks will, and the really sensitive will switch to the 235 line.

A last detail about that Series 235 line: between the 1/5" ID and the slick PET liner you will find you need to use at least 50% longer lines than a proper 3/16" ID PVC installation. While the rule of thumb for the latter is one foot of 3/16" ID line per PSI of CO2 used for dispensing, the former needs more like 1.5 feet. I've read of Series 235 users happily running 18 foot lines at 12 psi...

Cheers!

Thanks for your input. Being new to kegging I want to get it right to begin with. For the summer months I'll have the system at our hunting land where we spend much of our time. There's time we may be gone for a week so the beer will sit in the line till we come up. Then we may spend a week or more. Thanks.

Bill

 

[lupulinaddict]

I recommend the Bev Seal Ultra Series 235 line in what they sell as 3/16" ID (it's actually 1/5"). It is a stiffer line than the typical solid PVC (the near ubiquitous standard Bevlex 200) but it's manageable, and the best way to implement it is with John Guest push-to-connect fittings at both ends rather than trying to stretch the line over a barb. Its primary benefit (and it's a non-trivial one) is its PET liner which has a far higher resistance to oxygen permeation than anything else you can obtain.

I can't recommend the "Ultra Barrier Silver" as it uses a proprietary plastic compound that has no published characteristics - and has not been a stellar performer taking the breadth of user input.

Standard vinyl (again, Bevlex 200) is cheap and easy to work with, but it permits oxygen ingress like a sieve, so beer standing in the line will go stale in a day. And it can impart a plastic character that some folks will never notice, some folks will, and the really sensitive will switch to the 235 line.

A last detail about that Series 235 line: between the 1/5" ID and the slick PET liner you will find you need to use at least 50% longer lines than a proper 3/16" ID PVC installation. While the rule of thumb for the latter is one foot of 3/16" ID line per PSI of CO2 used for dispensing, the former needs more like 1.5 feet. I've read of Series 235 users happily running 18 foot lines at 12 psi...

Cheers!

Great info. Thanks. I have been looking at switching to this. It is said to be stiffer, but I was wondering since it has a narrower outside diameter how easily can it fit and bend inside 1/2” copper tubing? I have my current lines running through copper to help cool and would like to keep them. Didn’t know if it was possible to work it through the elbows?

 

[day_trippr]

I'll have to defer to someone who has tried to do that but tbh my intuition is it could be a challenge...

Cheers!

 

[SanPancho]

Whats the JG size that works on 3/16id?

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Great info. Thanks. I have been looking at switching to this. It is said to be stiffer, but I was wondering since it has a narrower outside diameter how easily can it fit and bend inside 1/2” copper tubing? I have my current lines running through copper to help cool and would like to keep them. Didn’t know if it was possible to work it through the elbows?

Sort of confused on what the copper accomplishes. If your keg with beer in it, your lines and taps are inside the kegerator, what does the copper do? It's all at the same temperature. Jut wondering if I'm missing something.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Whats the JG size that works on 3/16id?

From what I've read the OD is 5/16" so that's the size fitting you use.

 

[day_trippr]

See @Bobby_M's page here on JG fittings for threading on to 1/4" MFL keg connectors and standard beer shanks at the other end...

Cheers!

 

[SanPancho]

Not looking to use for taps. The issue- i guessed correctly- is that my local shops only have 1/4 and 3/8. No 5/16s. Might have to go with the 1/4 tubing.

 

[day_trippr]

If you're not using it in a dispensing system you can use whatever diameter is most convenient.
In a dispensing system, otoh, 1/4" Ultra 235 would require a hella long line to provide the necessary resistance...

Cheers!

 

[lupulinaddict]

Sort of confused on what the copper accomplishes. If your keg with beer in it, your lines and taps are inside the kegerator, what does the copper do? It's all at the same temperature. Jut wondering if I'm missing something.

So it helps keep the beer in the lines from the keg to the faucet cool. I pretty much use a coffin box and the lines behind the faucet gets warm in the summer. It’s also in the garage. The copper extends to the back of the faucet from inside the chest freezer. Copper pipe transfers the cold of the freezer and passively cools the beverage tubing. The copper pipe is also wrapped with pipe insulation. I felt it made a big difference. I still dump some beer before I pour a pint, hence why I want to change the lines, but the beer is definitely colder faster than it was before the copper.

 

[PADave]

I like this line.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/ultra-barrier-pvc-free-tubing-316.html

 

[Bobby_M]

I like this line.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/ultra-barrier-pvc-free-tubing-316.html

I'm glad it works well for you but my beer was oxidizing in the tubing really badly.

 

[day_trippr]

That's another EJ line I can't recommend, for the same reason as their "Ultra Barrier Silver" line: they use a proprietary plastic and the only thing known is that it is modestly superior than solid PVC wrt oxygen permeability ("70%" better is hardly better at all when you consider PET permeability is a couple orders of magnitude lower than PVC...

Cheers!

 

[RJSkypala]

+1 for bevseal ultra. I just switched over after using PVC for 10 years. Noticed an immediate improvement in flavor. Using 20’ lines for each tap and the pour is nice.

Got them from Bobby brewhardware with the John Guest fittings which I think are a must. Used zip ties to keep them coiled.

highly recommended, my beers haven’t tasted this good in a long time

 

[Bigarcherynut]

+1 for bevseal ultra. I just switched over after using PVC for 10 years. Noticed an immediate improvement in flavor. Using 20’ lines for each tap and the pour is nice.

Got them from Bobby brewhardware with the John Guest fittings which I think are a must. Used zip ties to keep them coiled.

highly recommended, my beers haven’t tasted this good in a long time

Thanks much. I have just placed my order.

 

[gnef]

I'm another big proponent of the 235 tubing with John Guest fittings, I think it is great tubing. I also believe that if you maintain it well, it will last significantly longer than typical PVC tubing, and I actually don't expect to ever need to replace mine as long as I do a better job with that maintenance.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I'm another big proponent of the 235 tubing with John Guest fittings, I think it is great tubing. I also believe that if you maintain it well, it will last significantly longer than typical PVC tubing, and I actually don't expect to ever need to replace mine as long as I do a better job with that maintenance.

Glad to here this. I've got 100' coming Tuesday.

Cheers!

 

[gnef]

Glad to here this. I've got 100' coming Tuesday.

Cheers!

Did you also get the appropriate John Guest fittings? They make using the tubing exceptionally simple. I've actually changed all my fittings over to John Guest for both liquid and gas to make things easier to attach, remove, and change out.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Did you also get the appropriate John Guest fittings? They make using the tubing exceptionally simple. I've actually changed all my fittings over to John Guest for both liquid and gas to make things easier to attach, remove, and change out.

Didn't get them yet. Mine are all barbed currently but have worked with similar fittings on my RO system. They are nice.

 

[gnef]

Didn't get them yet. Mine are all barbed currently but have worked with similar fittings on my RO system. They are nice.

Ah, I've heard that boiling water can help get the tubing over barbs, but it can still be a pain. If you can swing the purchase, getting the John Guest fittings and MFL disconnects are great. I have the John Guest fittings on my disconnects as well as the shanks, and it made installation a breeze.

 

[lupulinaddict]

+1 for bevseal ultra. I just switched over after using PVC for 10 years. Noticed an immediate improvement in flavor. Using 20’ lines for each tap and the pour is nice.

Got them from Bobby brewhardware with the John Guest fittings which I think are a must. Used zip ties to keep them coiled.

highly recommended, my beers haven’t tasted this good in a long time

What pressure are you at? I replaced mine and bought enough for 20’ a line. I haven’t played with it too much, but the first pour was slow and didn’t seem right with my co2 set at 12-14psi. Didn’t know if I should start cutting the lines back.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Glad you asked about this. I'm hoping to brew a batch within the next week and it will be the first to be used with my kegging system. I bought 100' and was planning on starting with 20' lines at the same pressure. Hope to get some feedback on that length.

 

[Bobby_M]

1ft per psi is about right.

 

[lupulinaddict]

1ft per psi is about right.

Is that the restriction of the tubing, or are you saying about a foot of line per psi of set co2 pressure?
Thanks and happy with the line so far.

 

[day_trippr]

1 foot of 3/16" ID beer line per psi of CO2 for dispensing is the convention - for solid PVC line.
As the Ultra 235 ID is actually 1/5" the resistance per unit length is lower, plus it has the PET barrier lining which is slicker than PVC.
Thus, many if not most folks find they need roughly half-again more footage for Ultra 235 than pretty much any other type of line to obtain the same flow rate at the tap. I would therefore recommend obtaining 18 feet per faucet, minimum, so as not to be caught out...

Cheers!

 

[eric19312]

Are you guys using this for beverage and gas? I only see the one size on @Bobby_M 's site.

 

[gnef]

Are you guys using this for beverage and gas? I only see the one size on @Bobby_M 's site.

I've tried using it for gas lines, but it was too rigid for me, and became a pain to use. I now use a mix of braided and thick walled PVC tubing with my push to connect fittings for the gas lines.

If rigid tubing can work for your setup, there is no reason why you couldn't use it. The bev seal ultra 235 was really designed as a beverage tubing, but if you want to unify your tubing to the one, it should work fine.

What are you currently using, and is there reason for you to change your gas line?

 

[day_trippr]

The PET barrier liner on the Ultra 235 is a plus for those who are O2-ingress adverse - even on gas lines.
That's an extra level of avoidance for sure but it's there for the offing...

Cheers!

 

[eric19312]

I've tried using it for gas lines, but it was too rigid for me, and became a pain to use. I now use a mix of braided and thick walled PVC tubing with my push to connect fittings for the gas lines.

If rigid tubing can work for your setup, there is no reason why you couldn't use it. The bev seal ultra 235 was really designed as a beverage tubing, but if you want to unify your tubing to the one, it should work fine.

What are you currently using, and is there reason for you to change your gas line?

I'm currently using Bevlex 200 1/4 inch ID 1/2 inch OD. Thats PVC. I'm reading horror stories of how much oxygen gets into my beer through these lines. It's all theoretical but maybe there is better choice of tubing for gas.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

So I just swapped my lines out to the 235s. I ran them 1.5 times longer than the 200 lines I had before, keeping the pressure the same. Presurized/flushed with star san, my tap handles don't stay shut (525ss w/o the intertap spring). Anyone else have this issue?