Recirc eBIAB Kettle Return Options

[jbedell2]

I'm working on an eBIAB build using a 15G Bayou Classic kettle (1160) with a BoilCoil and recirculation pump. I've been planning to have two return ports, one in the lid for recirculation during mash, and one for whirlpooling using the SpinCycle from Brew Hardware. But as I was about to start drilling last night, a couple questions came up:

-Will the steamer basket still fit properly with the SpinCycle installed under the ridge of the kettle? It seems like the basket will fit, but will be sort of pushed over to one side. I need to raise the basket slightly with SS bolts anyway, to give the BoilCoil room underneath. Has anyone used this exact setup with a SpinCycle? I'm worried about the basket not going in and out smoothly, or resting awkwardly in the kettle.

-Would it make more sense to build a whirlpool arm that hangs over the side of the pot? That way, I could use it for both mash recirculation (by putting it inside the basket/bag) AND for whirlpooling after the boil. It seems like this would help keep the grain bed fluid and mash temps stable. I could do this using the SpinCycle that I already have, and adding an elbow to help it hang on the rim of the pot. I'd have to cut a notch in the lid or leave it partially open. My biggest concern here would be the mesh bag getting all twisted up. Has anyone done anything like this?

Thanks for any input! It's pretty nerve-racking to finally start drilling after all this planning.

 

[BryanG]

How did you solve this? I am looking at the same setup as you described and have the same questions, except I am looking at the 11-gallon pot. I would love to see images of your final kettle.

 

[jbedell2]

How did you solve this? I am looking at the same setup as you described and have the same questions, except I am looking at the 11-gallon pot. I would love to see images of your final kettle.

I wound up using the exact setup I described in the first paragraph. The SpinCycle from Brew Hardware is awesome for whirlpooling after the boil, and it doesn't get in the way of the basket too much. The basket sits a little bit off-center but it's not a big deal. For recirculating during the mash, I just have a bulkhead in the lid that I attach the return line to. I can attach a short piece of silicone tubing to get the return under the liquid level, but I also sometimes just let it pour down from the lid. It seems to work fine either way. The biggest issue I'm having right now is the mesh bag getting clogged during recirc, especially with the flaked grains I'm using in my NE IPAs these days. I can mostly keep this under control by regulating the pump flow, but I can't comfortably leave it for an hour without worrying about the element dry firing or the basket overflowing.

Overall I'm very happy with the way I set up this system. If I could improve anything, I would replace the bag and steamer basket with a custom basket from Arbor. I may do this at some point when the budget allows. Also, the recirc return could be a little cooler, perhaps giving a whirlpool effect. I could probably do this with those plastic bendy connectors that I can't remember the name of.

I'll try to take some pics in the next few days if I have time.

 

[BryanG]

Curious ... (I am assuming you are using the spin at end of boil, and return to grains only when mashing) What if you diverted your recirculation so that the 60% goes into the grain and 40% goes to the spin cycle (play with flows to get max to grain). This would keep the mash/wort circulating around the bag while sill moving the maximum you can through the grains without creating a potential overflow. I wonder if the circulation around the bag would help pull wort through the grains in any way.

To do that you would need a T fitting on the return and a couple ball valves to control flow rates to the grain and spin cycle.

Ar you using the 15 gallon kettle for 10 gallon batches? I am looking at the 11 gallon kettle for 5 gallon batches. Thanks again.

 

[jmrybak]

I recirc using my whirlpool return arm from NorCal. Very happy with this set up. Keeps the grain moving and the water flowing well. Mine returns at just about the 4g mark in my 10g Spike kettle. I usually let the grain soak for 10 minutes prior to starting recirc. Let's me pretty much set it up and walk away for the mash. Although I may stir or tinker occasionally just to check on things. I've also tried the loc line manifold, but at least with my set up it led to cavitation and glow problems.

 

[jbedell2]

Curious ... (I am assuming you are using the spin at end of boil, and return to grains only when mashing) What if you diverted your recirculation so that the 60% goes into the grain and 40% goes to the spin cycle (play with flows to get max to grain). This would keep the mash/wort circulating around the bag while sill moving the maximum you can through the grains without creating a potential overflow. I wonder if the circulation around the bag would help pull wort through the grains in any way.

To do that you would need a T fitting on the return and a couple ball valves to control flow rates to the grain and spin cycle.

Ar you using the 15 gallon kettle for 10 gallon batches? I am looking at the 11 gallon kettle for 5 gallon batches. Thanks again.

Correct - return to grains during mash and spin cycle to whirpool at end of boil. I do run the pump for a minute or two a few times during the boil so the wort in the hose gets boiled.

Your idea sounds cool but probably more parts and effort than I want to expend at this point. I'll probably stick to just keeping an eye on it and adjusting the pump outlet valve as needed. jmrybak's setup looks pretty good too though.

I haven't done a 10 gallon batch, but I easily could. I usually do 6 gallons into the fermenter. I never get anywhere near the capacity of the kettle. Someone advised me when I was building my system to go 15g instead of 10, and I'm glad I did.

Here, I found a few pics. In the one showing the return to the mash, I'm holding the lid in my hand. You're seeing the flow from the botttom of the lid.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I tried using the steamer basket with a bag inside and found even with the little cheap Chinese pump there wasn't enough flow through the bag/basket and the bag would fill up and overflow..I ditched the basket and just use a bag now .I also ditched recirculating altogether and consistently get 80% efficiency...I see no reason to recirculate..

 

[BryanG]

Well, I think this is setting me on a direction ... Thank you guys.
Going to get me a big kettle, a nice bag, make a couple basic additions and build from there.

 

[jbedell2]

I tried using the steamer basket with a bag inside and found even with the little cheap Chinese pump there wasn't enough flow through the bag/basket and the bag would fill up and overflow..I ditched the basket and just use a bag now .I also ditched recirculating altogether and consistently get 80% efficiency...I see no reason to recirculate..

For me, recirculating is more about consistent mash temp than maximum efficiency. When I was doing straight BIAB, I would get 10+ degree stratification. So the bottom of my grain was mashing at 146 but the top was mashing at 156. Recirculating with a PID seems to me like the best way to keep temperature consistent throughout and across the mash. It's all about isolating variables as much as possible to produce consistent, repeatable results.

I have considered ditching the basket, though, and just recirculating right into the bag. The boilcoil is supposed to be low density enough that it won't scorch the bag. Just need to keep the bag from getting sucked into the diptube.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I have considered ditching the basket, though, and just recirculating right into the bag. The boilcoil is supposed to be low density enough that it won't scorch the bag. Just need to keep the bag from getting sucked into the diptube.

get a false bottom or a cheap pizza rack to keep the bag off the element

 

[jmrybak]

get a false bottom or a cheap pizza rack to keep the bag off the element

I just use binder clips that keep the bag so it hangs down just above my element. I went with a ripple running on 120v for 15w/in and have had not even the slightest sign of any scorching or had any trouble with my pickup tube. Also got the binder clips for free from work. Easy, effective, economical, what else could you ask for? Haha

 

[brianccarr]

I had the Spincycle which worked great, but I wanted to return the wort to the mash through the same port rather than cut another hole in the kettle or lid so I bought a camlock whirlpool from Brew Boss View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1478831585.590402.jpg
I like this because normally if you tried to use a quick connect or camlock, your whirlpool tube would be out away from the side of the kettle. The way this is bended it puts it back to the side wall. I will connect this at the boil. During the mash, I will use SS Brewtech's mash manifoldView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1478831822.547619.jpg
I have put a camlock on this with a hose barb.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1478832202.667358.jpg
So when mash is done, I remove it , then remove the bag and then attach the whirlpool to the same camlock port.
I will keep the bag off the bottom with Brew Hardware's false bottomView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1478831980.986860.jpg

I say "will" because I have just finished building this but have yet to Brew on it.

 

[jbedell2]

Wow, both of those things look very cool and I would have seriously considered that camlock whirlpool if I had seen it when I was doing my build.

I've also never seen the SS BrewTech manifold, and now I'm tempted to consider it. I could run the hose down from the port I already have in my lid, which even has a barb fitting on it already.

Interestingly, it looks like that manifold is designed to sit on top of the grain bed rather than at the bottom. Seems like it could be cool at the bottom to keep the grain bed flowing freely and prevent hot/cold spots.

braincarr, it sounds like you're still building - I'd be very interested to hear how that setup works for you.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Interesting topic that got me thinking about adding a whirlpool arm to my Bayou Classic kettle too. The threads of the ball valve, located at the bottom of my kettle, has 3/8 of an inch of thread exposed behind the nut holding it in place. Thinking about threading on a 3/4 inch fitting, with a short stainless steel tube bent on a 45 degree angle, to act as the whirlpool extension.

Now to start searching or just the right parts.

 

[ReverseMonk]

I had the Spincycle which worked great, but I wanted to return the wort to the mash through the same port rather than cut another hole in the kettle or lid so I bought a camlock whirlpool from Brew Boss View attachment 376707
I like this because normally if you tried to use a quick connect or camlock, your whirlpool tube would be out away from the side of the kettle. The way this is bended it puts it back to the side wall. I will connect this at the boil. During the mash, I will use SS Brewtech's mash manifoldView attachment 376708
I have put a camlock on this with a hose barb.
View attachment 376710
So when mash is done, I remove it , then remove the bag and then attach the whirlpool to the same camlock port.
I will keep the bag off the bottom with Brew Hardware's false bottomView attachment 376709

I say "will" because I have just finished building this but have yet to Brew on it.

Old thread, but very curious if the SS Brewtech manifold worked for you at the bottom (rather than top) of your mash. I've had the same idea for my ebiab, and been looking to see if anyone else had tried that.

 

[brianccarr]

I have never had the SS Brewtech at the bottom of the mash. It sits on top so the returned wort flows back through the grains. I have brewed six batches on this system now and so far so good.