Recipe kit Weirdness?

SwissRico · Sep 7, 2015

So I've followed a few recipes in the past and even made my own simple Hefe recipe, with some success. But now I have inherited a "Partial Mash" kit (who's going to say no to a freebie) with recipe instructions for the boil that just look wrong to me... But maybe it's me.

To make 19.5l (5gal) of wort for my "American IPA" I have 750g (1.6lb) of "IPA Maltmix grains" (not sure what percentage of this is crystal vs base grain) and 2.5kg (5.5lb) of extra light DME. I have my Hops and a single packet of Wyeast Burton IPA yeast. The end result *should* be : OG 1.062, FG 1.015, 5.4%, IBU 44, SRM 10.2

The boil instructions are as follows:
- Heat 3.8l (1gal) of water to 65C (149F) and the grains and create a "thin Mash". Cover the pot and let it sit on the stove for at least 30 minutes.
- Sparge with 4.9l (1.3gal) of water at 78C (172F) for about 20mins.
- Bring the collected wort to boil and add the hops according to the hop schedule (there are a 60min, 20min, and whirlpool hop additions).
- Strain the wort carefully into a bucket and from there again into the large pot. Add all of the malt extract. This will most certainly form lumps that are hard to dissolve. Heat the wort up again and let it sit on the stove for a while.
- Chill.
- Top up to 19.5l (5gal) in fermentor.
...

Weirdness #1 - The Grain Bill, the mash and the OG
I'm not sure what's in this malt mix, and I'm assuming that it's not all Crystal Malts as it makes up about 23% of the bill and without any additional fermentables I'd only get to 1.045 OG with the DME alone, but the instructions look like a steep rather than a mash, apart from the sparging.
The OG for this is quoted at 1.062, but after looking at a couple of my goto recipe calculators I'm looking at around 1.050-1.055... maybe my conversion efficiencies need to be tweeked ?

Weirdness #2 - The Boil
So I have essentially a 2gal boil that contains my "thin mash" from my 750g (1.6lb) of mystery mixed grain, into which I do my hop additions. I'm then supposed to add 2.5 kg (5.5lb) of DME after the boil, and reheat the wort to remove any lumps.
A 2gal boil for a 5gal batch is lower than I would normally go. I would normally go with 4gal with my kettle.
Previously I've been following @Yoopers advice of "1 pound (.45kg) of DME for every gallon of water (3.8 L) in the boil." so not putting any DME in the boil is making alarm bells go off in my head.

Weirdness #3 - yeast
5gal 1.062OG and 1 packet of Wyeast... is this enough without a starter?

Please set me straight.. is this weird or is it me?

Should I just RDWHAHB ? - I will anyway

Subdivisions · Sep 7, 2015

#1 Sounds a little light on the grains to be a partial mash. I've done extract w/ steeping grains that had more grain weight.

#2 You can top up the water to a full boil if you wish. The hop utilization will be different if the recipe is looking for a partial boil. Put part of the DME in as the wort is getting to a boil then dump the rest in at flameout. No need to re-heat. It'll be hot enough

#3 Make a starter

EDIT: Did some calculations and you're about a pound (.45Kg) of DME off to get 1.062. Was there maybe an extra bag that didn't make it to your kit? Look in the ingredients list on the instructions, if there is one. Also, I'm pretty sure this kit is an extract w/ steeping grains that's being misnamed as a "Partial Mash"

ncbrewer · Sep 7, 2015

SwissRico said:
So I've followed a few recipes in the past and even made my own simple Hefe recipe, with some success. But now I have inherited a "Partial Mash" kit (who's going to say no to a freebie) with recipe instructions for the boil that just look wrong to me... But maybe it's me.

To make 19.5l (5gal) of wort for my "American IPA" I have 750g (1.6lb) of "IPA Maltmix grains" (not sure what percentage of this is crystal vs base grain) and 2.5kg (5.5lb) of extra light DME. I have my Hops and a single packet of Wyeast Burton IPA yeast. The end result *should* be : OG 1.062, FG 1.015, 5.4%, IBU 44, SRM 10.2

The boil instructions are as follows:
- Heat 3.8l (1gal) of water to 65C (149F) and the grains and create a "thin Mash". Cover the pot and let it sit on the stove for at least 30 minutes.
- Sparge with 4.9l (1.3gal) of water at 78C (172F) for about 20mins.
- Bring the collected wort to boil and add the hops according to the hop schedule (there are a 60min, 20min, and whirlpool hop additions).
- Strain the wort carefully into a bucket and from there again into the large pot. Add all of the malt extract. This will most certainly form lumps that are hard to dissolve. Heat the wort up again and let it sit on the stove for a while.
- Chill.
- Top up to 19.5l (5gal) in fermentor.
...

Weirdness #1 - The Grain Bill, the mash and the OG
I'm not sure what's in this malt mix, and I'm assuming that it's not all Crystal Malts as it makes up about 23% of the bill and without any additional fermentables I'd only get to 1.045 OG with the DME alone, but the instructions look like a steep rather than a mash, apart from the sparging.
The OG for this is quoted at 1.062, but after looking at a couple of my goto recipe calculators I'm looking at around 1.050-1.055... maybe my conversion efficiencies need to be tweeked ?

I figure an estimated 8 gravity points contributed by the grain, which would bring it from 1.045 from the extract up to 1.053. Pretty much agrees with your estimate.

Weirdness #2 - The Boil
So I have essentially a 2gal boil that contains my "thin mash" from my 750g (1.6lb) of mystery mixed grain, into which I do my hop additions. I'm then supposed to add 2.5 kg (5.5lb) of DME after the boil, and reheat the wort to remove any lumps.
A 2gal boil for a 5gal batch is lower than I would normally go. I would normally go with 4gal with my kettle.
Previously I've been following @Yoopers advice of "1 pound (.45kg) of DME for every gallon of water (3.8 L) in the boil." so not putting any DME in the boil is making alarm bells go off in my head.

Late extract addition sounds ok if a normal amount of grain is used, but this is not very much grain. I agree it seems kind of weird.

Weirdness #3 - yeast
5gal 1.062OG and 1 packet of Wyeast... is this enough without a starter?

It doesn't sound like enough yeast without a starter, but I'd like to hear other opinions.

Please set me straight.. is this weird or is it me?

Should I just RDWHAHB ? - I will anyway

Sometimes, kit instructions are really bad. You might have to wing it.

SwissRico · Sep 7, 2015

Subdivisions said:
#1 Sounds a little light on the grains to be a partial mash. I've done extract w/ steeping grains that had more grain weight.

#2 You can top up the water to a full boil if you wish. The hop utilization will be different if the recipe is looking for a partial boil. Put part of the DME in as the wort is getting to a boil then dump the rest in at flameout. No need to re-heat. It'll be hot enough

#3 Make a starter

EDIT: Did some calculations and you're about a pound (.45Kg) of DME off to get 1.062. Was there maybe an extra bag that didn't make it to your kit? Look in the ingredients list on the instructions, if there is one. Also, I'm pretty sure this kit is an extract w/ steeping grains that's being misnamed as a "Partial Mash"

Thanks

You are confirming what I was thinking. No there was nothing missing from the kit, i was thinking of changing the boil volume and hop schedule (I prefer my AIPA's up in the low 60IBU) that's why I'm seeing these weird issues in the recipe. Glad I wasn't left scratching my head when checking the SG after topping up the fermentor...

I'm pretty confident now in what I will be doing on brewday :mug:

.

I'll go with my calcs for a 3.5gal boil assuming a partial mash, my hop schedule and adjusted wort volume to get me at 1.062-64. 1l starter... And we'll have the "Mystery Machine IPA"

Subdivisions · Sep 7, 2015

SwissRico said:
I'll go with my calcs for a 3.5gal boil assuming a partial mash, my hop schedule and adjusted wort volume to get me at 1.062-64. 1l starter... And we'll have the "Mystery Machine IPA"

Make sure the label on the bottle has Scooby and Shaggy on it. Good luck!

SwissRico · Sep 8, 2015

So the guy at who made the recipe seems pretty adamant

"DME has a lot more solubles than the grain.
If I calculate 0.75 x 750 grms and add 2.5 kg, that yields 3.0625 kg
Divided by 19.5 litres makes 157 grms per liter.
Given the fact, that the short mash and the not so efficent lautering probably yields less than 75% efficency, our 14.5°P [1.059 SG] are not too far away from the reality."

I'm still not convinced. I'm following my gut and will test my SG with 17l and if I'm over I'll add more accordingly...