Recipe Ideas for 'The Beast'

[landhoney]

This is Avery's description:

"Brewed with two-row malted barley, honey malt, and imported Belgian specialty grains (aromatic, pale wheat, roasted wheat, and Special B), hops (Magnum, Galena, Saaz, Hallertau, Tettnang, and Hersbrucker), brewing sugars (raisins, dates, blackstrap molasses, alfalfa honey, turbinado, and dark Belgian candy sugar), water, Belgian yeast and another hellion of a yeast strain. OG: 1.138"

My brewing schedule is to do one traditional brew and then one experimental/off-the-waller. I just brewed a traditional dunkel, so its time to tame the beast. I don't have the book on designing your own brew, but I doubt it would cover something like this anyway.

Any ideas on how to put a recipe together with all these ingredients. I think this beer is worth making in an attempt to improve it.

 

[landhoney]

I need a recipe that is AG. I've looked around this forum and the web and have not found any info on a clone of this beer. Thanks again guys and gals.

 

[Reidman]

Good luck. That is a huge brew!

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

I wonder what they are using as "another hellion of a yeast strain."

 

[sirsloop]

You going for 80 proof beer or something?

 

[landhoney]

I'm not shooting for high alcohol...but I know I'll probably be up ther anyway. I just like to try something non-traditional after brewing something else in a traditional style. Also, I feel like homebrew always has the potential to be better than commercial.....so I feel like trying to improve uopn the original.

BUT THE MAIN THING is that I need some help. Really, you guys don't have to be experts at designing brews, but just with some more experience creating anew than me....which is none. Really, don't be shy to throw a recipe idea up here even if its only a shot in the dark. PLEASE

 

[jager]

This would be my game plan if I wanted to make something with similar ingredients.

OG: 1.080
FG: 1.010'ish
srm: 15'ish

optic malt: 70%
aromatic: 5%
honey malt: 5%
wheat malt: 3%
special b: 2%
turbinado 3%
belgian candi syrup 3%
table sugar: 9%


yeast=
white labs belgian mix

hops= 35'ish ibu's
-bittering-
magnum
-late hop addition and dry hopping-
Saaz, Hallertau

 

[landhoney]

Jager was the first weigh in! Lets get some more! I like the grain ideas, and I think Jager included almost all the grains listed(not sure I can get optic but I know what to sub for that), but we need all those other adjuncts worked in- dates, raisins, molasses, and honey. I don't really want to add white sugar -cidery qualities? Lastly, we need to get to 1.138 - or at least closer to that than 1.080
Keep it up guys, lets get some more ideas!

 

[jager]

white sugar is absolutely necessary for big belgians, as you can't get super low final gravities without it.


landhoney, if you go to avery's website they don't list any fruits or sugars, and they list the starting gravity as 1.148

 

[landhoney]

That descriptive quote was from ratebeer.com and was quoted as the "commerical description" from them. I thought it was more descriptive than the one on Avery's website because it seems to say that the raisin, molasses, etc. are actual ingredients not just flavors found in the beer. Also, this beer isn't strictly a begian clone so it doesn't necessarily need to have white sugar correct? Or have you had the "Beast" and feel that the flavors indicate that it does have white sugar? Please let me know what you think. Thanks.

 

[uwmgdman]

I saw The Beast............I'm just glad this isn't for Milwaukee's Best.

 

[landhoney]

"I saw The Beast............I'm just glad this isn't for Milwaukee's Best."


What does that mean?

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

You may just want to try e-mailing the guys at Avery, they are very receptive to homebrewers and beer enthusiasts.

 

[CBBaron]

"I saw The Beast............I'm just glad this isn't for Milwaukee's Best."


What does that mean?

I remember Milwaukee's Best (a cheap BMC style beer) being nicknamed the beast. That was back in the early 90s before I found good beer and realized I really like beer. Can you believe I made it through high school and college with drinking hardly any beer?
Craig

 

[landhoney]

I didn't know 'Mil's Best' was nicknamed the Beast, now I understand your reply. Also...

You may just want to try e-mailing the guys at Avery, they are very receptive to homebrewers and beer enthusiasts.

So you think they would provide an ingredient list? I guess they would at the very least let me know if it really had dates, raisins, etc. in the beer.
But I still want people to weigh in with their ideas, I know many are looking at this post - anybody used these wacky adjuncts to make big brew? Let's try and create something.

 

[jager]

I'd email 'em, a lot of brewers will give you that kind of information.

oh, and about that white sugar, I just put that in there to get the gravity low, I wouldn't put it in there if you trying to get close to the original.

the final gravity for the original is 1.037'ish, if I remember correctly.

 

[landhoney]

Ok, so I emailed Avery and I will post whatever they reply with, I hope you guys are right. I am trying to get close to the original, but hopefully can improve it - of course to my taste. So I guess no white sugar.
I'm thinking if the weird adjuncts are included in the brew that I would take the -raisins, dates, blackstrap molasses, alfalfa honey, turbinado and blending them together in a food processor and adding them either right at the end of the boil to kill any bad guys or cooking the mix and adding it in the primary or secondary - any tips on what could be best to do with these ingredients?

 

[landhoney]

How do you figure out how much gravity or fermentable sugar adding things like raisins, dates, molasses, etc. will add? Like, if I figure out the gravity of the grain bill, and then need to get it up a few points -how do I know how much these things will add? All the free calculators I've used/seen don't have these things.

 

[abt]

This will take about 15g of mashtun just to mash, not including sparge water. It's also about a 14g preboil, and a 4-5hr boil-off before pitching hops. You may want to do 3/5 of the recipe to make it more manageable. WLP 530 is their house Belgian strain, but I'm just guessing about the WLP 099. This is calculated at 60% efficiency, which if you sparge slowly and do collect 14g you should make no problem. Acidify your sparge water about halfway through the 6g for good luck. To keep the gallon starter from affecting the beer, I recommend stepping up from a pint to a quart to a gallon, letting it completely ferment over three days, then chill for 24hr, decant and pitch just the slurry. This one would be a great reason to go buy that oxygenation kit you've been wanting. Pitch at ~64° and let it go where it will for as long as it drops the gravity. (I would guess it might make it to about 1.070.) Oxygenate the 099 heavily, since it won't get any O2 from the wort/beer.

Here you go:
33 lbs Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 89.5 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (Dingemans) (19.0 SRM) Grain 4.1 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 4.1 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 1.4 %
4.0 oz Special B (Dingemans) (140.0 SRM) Grain 0.7 %
2.0 oz Wheat, Roasted (425.0 SRM) Grain 0.3 %
3.00 oz Magnum [14.00%] (60 min) Hops 58.8 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80%] (15 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
1.00 oz Saaz [3.30%] (15 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 gal starter Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale
1 quart starter Super High Gravity Ale (White Labs #WLP099 pitched in secondary) Yeast-Ale

Est Original Gravity: 1.148 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.036 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 14.8 %
Bitterness: 64.8 IBU
Est Color: 20.3 SRM

Mash Profile
Sparge Water: 6.38 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Saccharification Add 46.09 qt of water at 155.6 F 145.0 F 45 min
Saccharification Heat to 156.0 F over 2 min 156.0 F 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 2 min 168.0 F 10 min

 

[abt]

Oh, and the molasses, dates, etc., no that's not in the beer. It just comes out of the beer, if you know what I mean. White sugar in the last 10m of the boil - even up to 15% - will not give you a cidery taste. Pour a couple pounds of plain sugar straight into chilled wort and you might get that, but in general usage, sugar is not a problem and is a super-easy way to get a lighter beer from such a high OG. (The Beast is not meant to be a lighter beer, with 68 IBU's and a 1.038 TG or whatever.)
Depending on your experience with big beers, after looking at it again, I'd recommend you shoot for something like 1.090 OG. It'll still be a beast, but somewhat tameable. Use what you learn from that to adapt to an even bigger beer next time. (Or you may find that 9-10% abv is just plenty!)

 

[landhoney]

Well, I brewed one AG that started at 1.096(my highest), but this would definitely be a different ballpark. My setup would not handle doing it all at once, I'd have to split it up. Really great looking recipe though 'abt' , I really appreciate it. Hopefully I'll hear back from Avery and we can see how close you got. I must admit though I'll be disappointed not adding dates, molasses, etc. - seemed weird but fun. How did you come up with this recipe by the way? Lastly, really I'm not shooting for 14.8% alcohol. Maybe that will be the way to improve it? -make it have less of an alcohol profile(correct term?). What do ya' think?

 

[dibby33]

Mmmm.... the beast lives...
The only problem is the patience after bottling... BURP.

 

[mcaustin]

Ok, so I emailed Avery and I will post whatever they reply with, I hope you guys are right. I am trying to get close to the original, but hopefully can improve it - of course to my taste.

So I'm going to ask this since you said that you've seen the "commercial description." Have you actually drank "The Beast??" SWMBO took me to a private sampling at Elysian Fields in Seattle, and Adam Avery was the featured guest (cool guy, I'd give them a call with any questions about their beers too), and so naturally, I needed to try The Beast (15-16% ABV) and Mephistopholes (sp-their seasonal 16% ABV stout).

While the Mephistopholes was pretty good, most of my friends that tried the bottle I bought could not drink it when they tasted it. The Beast, however, was a whole other thing... It was somewhat like a cough syrup with more alcohol in it. We barely drank the 12oz bottle we bought, but I insisted on finishing it since it was $9 :rockin:

I guess my point is, if you haven't tried it, I would before trying to clone it

Avery makes some very, very good beers, but I don't think I'll be trying The Beast again :cross:

Austin

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

I kinda feel that way about their Samail, had it at a beer fest, can't say I would ever buy it or that I even liked it...

 

[landhoney]

My plan was to hopefully improve upon it, and the reason I included the commercial description was because it seemed very desciptive - and seemed to be from Avery because it was so detailed( eventhough I know the current description on their website is different).
Also, I felt if someone had brewed something similar(if possible) to the description that would help make a comparitive recipe. I would like to brew something that is not so syrupy sweet and has the apparent alcohol mouthfeel with the sweetness that comes at the end(finish).
It is my understanding that homebrewing with more grain and less sugars than the commercial example(maybe) will yield better results, like without the aforementioned syrup/sweet/alcohol components. Also, maybe the alcohol wouldn't be the same. What I really want is those dark, complex flavor components, higher alcohol(doesn't need to be 14%) in a beer that will age and improve. But what do you think?

 

[abt]

I think you should make it EXACTLY as I posted!

 

[landhoney]

I think you should make it EXACTLY as I posted!

I probably will, but my question to you is......Have you made it?
And of course hopefully I'll hear back from Avery and I'll be able to tell you that you were right on the money.

BTW 'abt' do you think I'd get the highlighted(orange) qualities above in my last posts if I used your recipe? Tall order......

 

[abt]

I've not brewed it. I'm not too into the insanely big beers, seeing how long it takes me to go through the 10-12% beers I've put together. I will say that at my last trip to Avery, besides staying too long and drinking waaaay too much I was really amazed at how well they could put together an easy-drinking IPA or White, and then turn around and make these monsters so well.
If you want a dryer finish you should most definitely use MORE sugar, since it's so fermentable compared to wort.
If you want a little lighter body, without quite as much heat, this is what I'd do:
19 lbs Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 81.1 %
14.0 oz Aromatic Malt (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.7 %
14.0 oz Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 3.7 %
4.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 1.1 %
4.0 oz Special B (Dingemans) (147.5 SRM) Grain 1.1 %
3.0 oz Wheat, Roasted (425.0 SRM) Grain 0.8 %
2.00 oz Magnum [14.00%] (60 min) Hops 55.8 IBU
0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80%] (15 min) Hops 4.0 IBU
0.75 oz Saaz [3.30%] (15 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
2 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8.5 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs Super High Gravity Ale (White Labs #WLP099) Yeast-Ale

Same mash and fermentation schedule. If you aerate the devil out of it and pitch a monster starter, you should be able to get from 1.100 to about 1.020, provided you let the yeast do its thing in the mid-70's and don't freak out. That'll give you 10.5%, respectable by any measure.
As for the dark fruits, etc., yeah, it'll work great. Tell you what: If you don't like it I won't even charge you for it!

 

[landhoney]

Now if I could only get that guarantee from my LHBS - Bazzzinggggg

But on a serious note. So the unfermentables contribute to that sweetness?

I thought it was just stuff that contributed to body, mouthfeel, etc. I always assumed that some poorly made , high alcohol, brews( like the french one that advertises 13% in big orange numbers -I don't remember the name, a guy at last homebrew meeting brought it- yuck!) just used sugar, or the like, to get big numbers. I understood of course that belgians,etc. that used sugar were different, but.....guess I got more to learn.

 

[DeathBrewer]

like the french one that advertises 13% in big orange numbers -I don't remember the name, a guy at last homebrew meeting brought it

you mean belzebuth? That stuff is awesome! alot of people i gave it to to try hated it, though. oh well, more for me :cross:

 

[landhoney]

Belzebuth! Yeah we didn't like it so much.
Anyway, that sweet-alcoholic-weird(sorry DeathBrewer) finish is what I'm looking to avoid. How would you(everyone who's tasted it) describe the finish?

 

[DeathBrewer]

heh. i think alcoholic would pretty much cover it. sweet. dry. kinda dries you up like u just took a shot of ethanol good stuff.

 

[abt]

That has a lot to do with yeast and temperature.
You have to trust me on this one: WLP530 can take mid-70's and up to 20% sugar without breaking a sweat.
To avoid the alcohol "heat" you really just have to keep the alcohol down. Making a balanced alcoholic beer, on the other hand, is alot about getting the IBU's to match up with the TG and the AA, IYKWIM.
Bet some money that Avery did a few test batches to hit a balance they could stand behind. It'll be sheer luck if you can get the process and ingredients nailed the first try. But it'll be beer, and I bet it'll be good. Take notes, and if it's too hot, lower the grain bill. If it's too sweet, either up the sugar, lower the mash temp or up the IBU's. It's an art after all, not a science.

 

[landhoney]

I made some attempt to look up those abbreviations, but no luck.
My guess 'abt':

TG= total grain?
AA= actual alcohol? I usually see ABV
IYKWIM = ????WTF????

But please let me know what you meant, though I get the jist.
Also, how long should I wait to hear back from Avery before giving up? I know its only been a few days, how long does it usually take? I got an itch to brew and its going to be scratched by the end of the weekend - 2 more brerws will be in the primary ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!!!! :rockin:

 

[uwmgdman]

I made some attempt to look up those abbreviations, but no luck.
My guess 'abt':

TG= total grain?
AA= actual alcohol? I usually see ABV
IYKWIM = ????WTF????

But please let me know what you meant, though I get the jist.
Also, how long should I wait to hear back from Avery before giving up? I know its only been a few days, how long does it usually take? I got an itch to brew and its going to be scratched by the end of the weekend - 2 more brerws will be in the primary ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!!!! :rockin:

TG= terminal gravity (same as final gravity FG)
AA= apparent attenuation (the attenuation rates listed by yeast companies)
IYKWIM = ????WTF???? agreed, no idea

 

[landhoney]

Thanks UWMGDMAN, we'll have to wait for 'abt' to fill us in on the last one.

 

[abt]

Sorry! My BAD!
It's:
Apparent Attenuation (as in (OG-TG)/OG as percentage)
and
If You Know What I Mean!

 

[landhoney]

Do you guys think I'm off my rocker to think they add the raisins,dates,etc. The reason is that the commercial description on ratebeer.com lists the grains,hops, and 'brewing sugars' very descriptively. Take a look @:
http://www.ratebeer.com/Beer/avery-the-beast-grand-cru-ale/30519/

It seems to me this an older description that Avery used to use, or maybe gave out so people would have an idea what it was or something. It even list water as an ingredient and lists that they use one belgian and another helion(badboy) of a yeast strain. Ratebeer.com did not invent this description, so I feel it must be from Avery. I have emailed both, and no response in weeks, and I tried to be friendly too - but not kiss as*. I appreciate 'abt's opinion I just can't see that descrition meaning something else. Am I missing something? I CAN'T get past this.