Recipe Critique-Single Hopped Mosaic IPA

[Miles_1111]

Hi guys, I am trying to build a single hopped Mosaic IPA recipe. I have brewed it once and felt very weird about it. Maybe it is too sweet rather than dry?

Really need some critiques for it. Thanks.

Batch Size: 2.5 gal ( All Grain )
Measured OG: 1.065
Measured FG: 1.014

ABV: 6.73%

Color: 12.8 EBC
IBU: 61.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
6.6 lbs two Row 90.9%
0.44 lbs Crystal 10L 6.1%
0.22 lbs Crystal 20L 3%

0.53 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @ 60 mins
0.28 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @10 mins
0.28 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @5 mins

0.35 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @0 mins
0.88 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) Dry hop for 7 days


Appreciate for any suggestions and critiques. J

 

[thehaze]

How exactly was the beer " weird " last time? Can you go into details?

Which yeast are you going to use?

I would say that 9.1% Crystal malt is too much. Just stick to plain 2-row and pilsner and nothing else added. If you really want some crystal in there, I highly recommend CaraBelge from Weyermann.

 

[Miles_1111]

How exactly was the beer " weird " last time? Can you go into details?

Which yeast are you going to use?

I would say that 9.1% Crystal malt is too much. Just stick to plain 2-row and pilsner and nothing else added. If you really want some crystal in there, I highly recommend CaraBelge from Weyermann.

"Weird" I meant it tastes sweet and bitter at the same time, the sweetness is prominent, so it is not quite balanced I would say. I think there are two reasons, one is two much crystal used, the other is I mashed with high tempeture 155.5 F.

The yeast was US-05.

What flavour wil pilsner or Munich give if I use either of them instead of crystal? Thanks~

 

[thehaze]

I would mash lower 149-150F and drop the crystal malt altogether. It seems like you want it dry.

You could combine Pale malt/Pilsner with Munich for both colour and malty backbone. I used Munich I ( Light ) in hoppy beers and works well. It does not add " sweetness ", but a fuller maltiness, when used in higher %.

Work your water and raise the sulphates a bit, to get more dryness in the final beer.

The yeast is OK for the purpose.

 

[NTexBrewer]

Here is my Mosaic hop recipe to give you a comparison. This is a 3 gallon batch so things are pretty comparable to your 2.5 gallon batch. The thing that I noticed is your bittering hop addition seems too much which is why you are getting such a bitter taste. I agree with the other posts that your crystal malts may be too high. I think when you are using fruity, citrus hops they add “sweetness” to the beer without crystal malts. You will notice with this recipe hops are added at 30 minutes with lots of late addition hops.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/mosaic-s-m-a-s-h-yellow-rose-clone.494127/

This thread has some good info about people cloning Lone Pint’s Yellow Rose which is the basis of my recipe. Lone Pint is a Pilsner Mosaic smash which is very tasty.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Yellow Rose 3 Gallon
Author: TXBigHops and Yellow Rose

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 3 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 4.2 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.049
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.069
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 6.84%
IBU (tinseth): 71.79
SRM (morey): 3.97

FERMENTABLES:
7.8 lb - German - Pilsner (100%)

HOPS:
0.3 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.3, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 16.59
0.3 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.3, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 10.71
1.1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.3, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 28.7
1.1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.3, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 15.78
1.2 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.3, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at 170 °F
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.3, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.3, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 104 F, Time: 15 min, Amount: 2.7 gal
2) Temperature, Temp: 122 F, Time: 15 min, Amount: 2.7 gal
3) Temperature, Temp: 140 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 2.7 gal
4) Temperature, Temp: 158 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 2.7 gal
5) Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 1.6 gal, Dunk Sparge

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.3 each - whirl flock, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
0.15 tsp - Yeast Nutrient, Time: 10 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 55 F
Pitch Rate: 1.25 (M cells / ml / deg P)

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name:
Ca2: 0
Mg2: 0
Na: 0
Cl: 0
SO4: 0
HCO3: 0
Water Notes:
Add 1.0 tsp of Calcium Chloride to Mash Water
Add 0.75 tsp of Calcium Chloride to Sparge Water

 

[Miles_1111]

Thanks a lot guys @thehaze @NTexBrewer.
I think the crystal is definiately wrong to add this beer. Is there any big difference if I use all plain 2-row or all Pilsner? these two seem replaceable with each other.
@NTexBrewer
I checked the thread of your Pilsner Mosaic smash. Great stuff. Cannot tell you how much I learned. Appreciate it. However, your IBU 71.79 is actually higher than mine 61.3, how come my beer tastse more bitter? Which leads to another question that bothers me for a while: adding different amount of same hop at different time can get the same IBU, will it taste the same? for example, add 1 oz Mosaic at 45 mins or 1.5 oz Mosaic at 30mins, either will get say 30 IBU, I assume the bitterness are the same, but what is the different in taste? Thanks.

 

[thehaze]

Using 2-row will result in a slightly darker shade of yellow when compared with Pilsner malt. They are however pretty much interchangeable. You could try reading a little on the different base barley malts available. Some say Pilsner is a bit grainy, some a bit sweet, but not cloying sweet.

I have used both and I like both. I do however use Pilsner, as I want all my light coloured beers, whether IPAs, Saisons, Belgian Pale ales, etc. to have a really bright ( hazy ) yellow colour, but this is just something I am into right now.

Regarding the IBUs: This is all general talk, which you can read more about, if you want to. Many forums and threads contain a lot of valuable info.

For an IPA, you should have around 10 IBUs for every 1% of alcohol ( again this is a very general guideline ). You could go more or less, depending on your taste. However, the bitterness should be adjusted to style and TASTE, but it will always be there, in order to help balancing the beer.

Brewers add a 60 minutes addition of hops to give the beer, the desired bitterness. You could also bitter at 30 minutes, but that means you will be using more hops to get you the same bitterness, as the 60 minutes addition. The 30 minutes will however be smoother. Remember that late additions and flameout hops ( whirlpool as well? ) will also add bitterness, so you need to take that into account, when designing the recipe. Readily available calculators will help a lot with these details.

Late hop additions, like in the last 15 minutes of the boil, will still add a bit of bitterness, but usually will impart flavours in the beer. Flameout hops and especially whirlpooling at lower temperature, will retain even more aroma and flavour in the beer.

 

[NTexBrewer]

Thanks a lot guys @thehaze @NTexBrewer.
I think the crystal is definiately wrong to add this beer. Is there any big difference if I use all plain 2-row or all Pilsner? these two seem replaceable with each other.
@NTexBrewer
I checked the thread of your Pilsner Mosaic smash. Great stuff. Cannot tell you how much I learned. Appreciate it. However, your IBU 71.79 is actually higher than mine 61.3, how come my beer tastse more bitter? Which leads to another question that bothers me for a while: adding different amount of same hop at different time can get the same IBU, will it taste the same? for example, add 1 oz Mosaic at 45 mins or 1.5 oz Mosaic at 30mins, either will get say 30 IBU, I assume the bitterness are the same, but what is the different in taste? Thanks.

I agree with thehaze’s response! Later hop additions provide bitterness but they are not as harsh and they also provide aroma and flavor compared to a 60 minute addition. I don’t pay too much attention to bitterness calculations for late addition hops compared to 60, 45, 30 minute additions.

 

[Miles_1111]

Going to try this new recipt this weekend, according to your suggestions:

Batch Size: 2.5 gal ( All Grain )
EST OG: 1.064
EST FG: 1.012
EST ABV: 6.9%
Colour: 8.3 EBC
IBU: 68.7 IBUs

5.95 lbs Pilsner 100%
0.28 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @60 mins 24.5 IBUs
0.42 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @15 mins 18.3 IBUs
0.53 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @10 mins 16.7 IBUs
0.53 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @5 mins 9.2 IBUs
1.23 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) Dry hop for 7 days
Yeast: US-05

1. Maybe the hops @60 mins still contribute too much portion of the IBUs here?
2. And I am not adding hops at flameout (whirlpool) this time, as not sure what is the difference in taste between flameout and dry hopping.

 

[tjmac5071]

I am sure it has already been stated but you used way too much crystal malt and too low of lovibond...that is giving you too much sweetness.

10l and 20l are candy like in their sweetness and need to be used sparingly. For a bit of comparison, I make a mosaic pale ale all the time that hovers between 5.2-5.9% depending on the particular tweaks of that brew and typically use 4oz 60l and 4oz 20l for 5.5 gallons in the fermenter. If I were to increase it to IPA level I would simply increase base malt (which is Pale Ale malt for me).

So my tip is use way less crystal, sub half of the low L for 60l and continue to adjust to your liking until you design the house recipe. Next time add some Vienna or Munich or touch of aromatic in place of some crystal. Switch up the base malt time to time to see what you like best. Make bigger adjustments until you feel you are within a pitching wedge of the target then make small adjustments to fine tune.

 

[NTexBrewer]

Going to try this new recipt this weekend, according to your suggestions:

Batch Size: 2.5 gal ( All Grain )
EST OG: 1.064
EST FG: 1.012
EST ABV: 6.9%
Colour: 8.3 EBC
IBU: 68.7 IBUs

5.95 lbs Pilsner 100%
0.28 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @60 mins 24.5 IBUs
0.42 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @15 mins 18.3 IBUs
0.53 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @10 mins 16.7 IBUs
0.53 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) @5 mins 9.2 IBUs
1.23 oz Mosaic (11.3% AA) Dry hop for 7 days
Yeast: US-05

1. Maybe the hops @60 mins still contribute too much portion of the IBUs here?
2. And I am not adding hops at flameout (whirlpool) this time, as not sure what is the difference in taste between flameout and dry hopping.

Looks good to me!

 

[schematix]

A little crystal isn't bad, but 10% and 2 varieties is too much. Pick one and stop at 5%. Do the rest with pilsner or 2-row.

For the mash if you're doing single infusion, go around 150 and do it for 90+ mins. Ideally a step mash would work best here, but do what you can. Longer will give you the attenuation this style needs.

Also if you really want an IPA you need to use about 1lb of hops per 5 gallons.

So something like:
.75 oz at 60
.5 oz at 15
.75 oz at 10
3 oz at 0 (and steep for 45-60 mins)
3 oz dry

You can move these around a little based on your preference, but i wouldn't change much the dry hop or the steep. Maybe move more to the bittering addition if you like it more bitter, or move some away from it if you like drinking orange juice beer.

Good luck.