Reasons to go all grain vs extract??

[eadavis80]

My lhbs lets me do exactly that. Super nice guy who has also said I could use his ferm chamber whenever needed ( for lagers). Get to know your local owners and you may be surprised what they offer for amenities to keep customers loyal.

Well, I guess there would be no harm in asking him...

 

[ericbw]

Sticky, sweet, dark beer is bad? Like a wee heavy or something?

Even some pales or west coast Amber/red can be thick and sweet.

Not sure how that translates to sub-par.

 

[derekcw83]

www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=32621

 

[Morrey]

You've gotten some really great advice here on this thread. Voices of experience.

I enjoy the same beer German/Pilsner/Hefe/Wit styles you do. Extract ALWAYS ends up darker than I want. Always. A good light SRM beer of 3 or 3.5 is darn hard to get from a boxed cake mix.....that's my word for DME. The "extract twang"...cant stand it, detect it a mile away.

So you may want to try BIAB which is the best AG gateway since you can function in a single kettle. Easy peasy. Rewarding

With AG, you'll find a recipe and next batch you want to try a little more of this or a little less of that. With extract you are boxed in. Darn, there goes my reference to boxed cake mixes again.

To all the die hard extract brewers out there I offer my sincerest apologies.

 

[Morrey]

I started all-grain a few years ago. Had to quit because of back trouble - the longer brew days were too much. But my biggest concern while I was doing all-grain was the grain storage. Even in Zip-Locks inside a bin, I could still smell the grain. I worried that it would attract mice or roaches. Has anybody had a problem with this?

I bought several of those 5G food grade buckets at Lowes Home Improvement. They also have gamma lids to fit and this makes a great system for storing. Mice are held at bay and I haven't seen grain weevils as I think the air seal must keep them from hatching.

 

[gitano]

With regard to "extract twang", personal tastes, and taste in general:

I used to teach "baby bio" (first semester biology) at KU, and most of the students in the class weren't biology majors. Most were simply trying to satisfy the General Education Requirement of a "science" for their bachelor's degrees. I wasn't interested in trying to make them into "scientists". BUT... I did want to pass on to them a few things about science in general and biology in particular that they could use throughout their lives. One of the demonstrations I would conduct was directed at showing how genetic differences can manifest themselves physically. In other words, "see" genetics. Most of 'you' have at one point or another in school talked about "free" earlobes vs "attached" earlobes, or "hitch-hikers thumb". Some may have even taken a "taster" vs "non-taster" test.

For those unfamiliar with this particular example of different sensory abilities that are genetically determined, it is very simple: Cardboard strips are soaked in a chemical called phenylthiocarbamide, or PTC for short. That cardboard strip (about the sized of a paper matchstick), is placed on the tongue. While there are a few people that just have some taste, most folks fall into one of two groups: the "THAT TASTES LIKE HELL!" group, or the "I can't taste a thing but cardboard" group. It's an interesting classroom demonstration because the response of the "tasters" is usually highly entertaining.

Since most of my pupils were just coming to the reproductive part of their lives, after the test showed who was and wasn't a "taster", I would say the following: "So for those of you that can't taste anything but cardboard, remember this exercise when you put some food in your baby's mouth and they spit it violently in your face. It probably tastes significantly different to them than it does to you."

And so it is with beer. And Wine. And a whole slew of different things we put in our mouths. "Twangers" and "non-Twangers" alike might do well to keep that in mind as they consider asserting the "rightness" or "wrongness" of someone else's gustatory preferences. As it turns out, I am what is referred to (since about 1990), a "supertaster". I have LOTS of "bitter" taste buds, and few "sweet" taste buds. That means that I am very sensitive to (HATE) bitter, and am relatively insensitive to (LOVE) "sweet". That in turn means I don't like the taste of hops, and like my drinks sweeter 'than the average bear'. I'm too old to give a tinker's damn what someone else thinks about my preferences in the taste of beer, (or anything else for that matter), but keeping in mind that other folks may actually taste things DIFFERENTLY as a result of their BIOLOGY, might prevent a stupid internet argument or two. (My hopes are actually pretty low in that regard, though.)

Here's a reasonably good read on the subject of "tasters and non-tasters". http://www.livescience.com/17190-supertaster-nontaster-tongue-evolution.html

Paul

PS - I "searched" (not exhaustively) for threads on this subject, but did not find any. If I missed them, and this subject has been covered ad nauseam, my apologies.

 

[Morrey]

With regard to "extract twang", personal tastes, and taste in general:

I used to teach "baby bio" (first semester biology) at KU, and most of the students in the class weren't biology majors. Most were simply trying to satisfy the General Education Requirement of a "science" for their bachelor's degrees. I wasn't interested in trying to make them into "scientists". BUT... I did want to pass on to them a few things about science in general and biology in particular that they could use throughout their lives. One of the demonstrations I would conduct was directed at showing how genetic differences can manifest themselves physically. In other words, "see" genetics. Most of 'you' have at one point or another in school talked about "free" earlobes vs "attached" earlobes, or "hitch-hikers thumb". Some may have even taken a "taster" vs "non-taster" test.

For those unfamiliar with this particular example of different sensory abilities that are genetically determined, it is very simple: Cardboard strips are soaked in a chemical called phenylthiocarbamide, or PTC for short. That cardboard strip (about the sized of a paper matchstick), is placed on the tongue. While there are a few people that just have some taste, most folks fall into one of two groups: the "THAT TASTES LIKE HELL!" group, or the "I can't taste a thing but cardboard" group. It's an interesting classroom demonstration because the response of the "tasters" is usually highly entertaining.

Since most of my pupils were just coming to the reproductive part of their lives, after the test showed who was and wasn't a "taster", I would say the following: "So for those of you that can't taste anything but cardboard, remember this exercise when you put some food in your baby's mouth and they spit it violently in your face. It probably tastes significantly different to them than it does to you."

And so it is with beer. And Wine. And a whole slew of different things we put in our mouths. "Twangers" and "non-Twangers" alike might do well to keep that in mind as they consider asserting the "rightness" or "wrongness" of someone else's gustatory preferences. As it turns out, I am what is referred to (since about 1990), a "supertaster". I have LOTS of "bitter" taste buds, and few "sweet" taste buds. That means that I am very sensitive to (HATE) bitter, and am relatively insensitive to (LOVE) "sweet". That in turn means I don't like the taste of hops, and like my drinks sweeter 'than the average bear'. I'm too old to give a tinker's damn what someone else thinks about my preferences in the taste of beer, (or anything else for that matter), but keeping in mind that other folks may actually taste things DIFFERENTLY as a result of their BIOLOGY, might prevent a stupid internet argument or two. (My hopes are actually pretty low in that regard, though.)

Here's a reasonably good read on the subject of "tasters and non-tasters". http://www.livescience.com/17190-supertaster-nontaster-tongue-evolution.html

Paul

PS - I "searched" (not exhaustively) for threads on this subject, but did not find any. If I missed them, and this subject has been covered ad nauseam, my apologies.

Paul, I cant agree more with your writings! You are well beyond my thinking process. I suppose I perceive extract twang opposed to others that may not taste it at all. Right you are sir.

And I should know this from BBQ judging and teaching judging classes. Some folks have higher thresholds and don't perceive samples as salty as an example, while another subset of judges scores the sample as well salted or even over salted. The examples continue on and on with various flavors and spices.

With this all said, at least the OP will be aware that some opinions vary, and if his palate perceives the twang, he will be aware of that.

 

[brewprint]

I'm a fairly novice brewer of German wheat beers/weizens. Done about 20 5-gal extract brews so far, and pretty happy with results. A friend promoted going all grain as better somehow, but without quite explaining why, I think a notion of being more "purist" or something like that. I assume there must be other reasons that so many do it. I'd love to know what they are? I see lots of threads on how but not on why. I'd certainly go that route if the reasons are good ones....

Thanks!
JK

Taste. There is simply a 'taste' with an extract brew that is not in an all grain brew. Not saying the taste is bad (for all the extract crybabies out there) but there is certainly a taste.

 

[mongoose33]

With regard to "extract twang", personal tastes, and taste in general:

I used to teach "baby bio" (first semester biology) at KU, and most of the students in the class weren't biology majors.....

<SNIP for brevity>

......Here's a reasonably good read on the subject of "tasters and non-tasters". http://www.livescience.com/17190-supertaster-nontaster-tongue-evolution.html

Paul

PS - I "searched" (not exhaustively) for threads on this subject, but did not find any. If I missed them, and this subject has been covered ad nauseam, my apologies.

Very well said, Paul. I'm a person who also doesn't particularly care for hoppy beers. I can appreciate aroma and flavor of such a beer but if it comes along with significant bitterness, well, there are other beers I'd rather have.

Spaghetti sauce is an interesting case in point--ever see someone eating spaghetti and they are SO into it that it is almost as if they are having a religious experience? Well, I have no idea what they're experiencing because to me, most spaghetti and sauce tastes like gruel. Only without flavor. I'm simply not sensitive to whatever flavors appear in such sauce.

I like malty beers. It's what I like. I've experienced a "twang" in extract beers I don't experience in my all-grain. I can accept that it may be something I taste but others don't. But that doesn't make me a bad person.

 

[gitano]

most spaghetti and sauce tastes like gruel. Only without flavor

.


Paul

 

[mona]

I brew 10 gallon sized batches, and a bag of grain (50#) is enough for two batches for me. I buy a sack of grain for $38. http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/801109.htm

That's 76 cents/pound.

I also buy my hops by the pound, and that is WAY cheaper as well ($8-15 per pound).

If I was going to buy dry malt extract instead of the grain, I'd need 30 pounds of dry malt extract for the same recipe to replace the 50# of grain. At $9.79 for three pounds at the same store (a great price!), that's 97.79. That's 2.5 times as much, and that's a great price.

At Northern Brewer, dry malt extract is $5 per pound! That's $180 for the extract.

So, for larger volumes, all-grain brewing is significantly cheaper.

That said, if I was brewing one gallon or three gallons once a month, I wouldn't try to economize all that much. But with the bigger sized batches, the cost savings is significant.

Even doing extract though, you can save money. You can reuse yeast (I buy yeast twice per year), buy hops by the pound and freeze, and buy some grain to replace some of the extract in a batch.

My biggest cost, though, is the grain. Paying $38 for a sack is a great bargain compared to $100-180 for extract for the same amount of fermentables.

Hello Yooper. I have followed a few threads in which you have added some info. I am a Yooper fan. So question. How do you get away from paying for shipping or are you just close enough that it does not cost as much to ship? To ship to Oregon the shipping costs were almost as much as the grain itself.

 

[Yooper]

Hello Yooper. I have followed a few threads in which you have added some info. I am a Yooper fan. So question. How do you get away from paying for shipping or are you just close enough that it does not cost as much to ship? To ship to Oregon the shipping costs were almost as much as the grain itself.

That is an issue. For me, I buy sacks of grain when I travel since I live quite "in the middle of nowhere", otherwise I do have things shipped. Sometimes places like ritebrew have very reasonable shipping (they'll break a sack into two 25 pound packages, and with the other items I think it's like $20 shipping) or I order smaller amounts until I get back to a city. I tend to go somewhere several times a year. This week, I'm going to Chicago to visit a fellow HBT friend. I'm stopping at Ritebrew to pick up 3 sacks of grain, a wine kit, and some smaller items. The 2-row I like is $38/50 pounds, so I'm getting three sacks which will last about 8 or 9 batches.

 

[brewprint]

That is an issue. For me, I buy sacks of grain when I travel since I live quite "in the middle of nowhere", otherwise I do have things shipped. Sometimes places like ritebrew have very reasonable shipping (they'll break a sack into two 25 pound packages, and with the other items I think it's like $20 shipping) or I order smaller amounts until I get back to a city. I tend to go somewhere several times a year. This week, I'm going to Chicago to visit a fellow HBT friend. I'm stopping at Ritebrew to pick up 3 sacks of grain, a wine kit, and some smaller items. The 2-row I like is $38/50 pounds, so I'm getting three sacks which will last about 8 or 9 batches.

You may as well pick up another one!