Random Brewing Thoughts

[FTowne1]

If anyone is planning on using the “Bugfarm” yeast strain do not rush the fermentation process. Give it a minimum of one year in the fermenter before you bottle it up. I kinda sorta rushed a batch a couple years ago and the bottles still taste weird a year after bottling, and they reformed a pellicle.

Snarf warned me and I should’ve listened. I guess I’ll leave the last 10 bottles alone for another year and check back in.

 

[JCastle1]

Random thought: has anyone ever tried to make a non-alcoholic berliner weisse? Would the pH after kettle-souring be enough to keep any nasty stuff away before fermenting with something like ludwigii?

 

[JulianB1]

Random thought: has anyone ever tried to make a non-alcoholic berliner weisse? Would the pH after kettle-souring be enough to keep any nasty stuff away before fermenting with something like ludwigii?

Alternatively, could you not just make a berliner weiss with zero hops, ferment as usual, and then burn off the alcohol by heating it to 175 for a half hour, i.e. the usual process for making non-alcoholic beer? Or is there something else that's undesirable in that process in this case, besides the usual problem with too much bitterness?

 

[neorunner]

I suggest laco fermenting a very high abv barleywine then "remove" the alcohol in a manner similar to above but preferably in copper vessels for reuse. Then dilute the remaining berliner "concentrate" down to desirable flavor levels, then process it by pouring it down the nearest drain and drinking the moonshine of life.

 

[coldcrash1]

Random thought: has anyone ever tried to make a non-alcoholic berliner weisse? Would the pH after kettle-souring be enough to keep any nasty stuff away before fermenting with something like ludwigii?

Looks like 4.6 may be your magic number.

https://cfvc.foodscience.cals.cornell.edu/acid-and-acidified-foods

 

[JCastle1]

Alternatively, could you not just make a berliner weiss with zero hops, ferment as usual, and then burn off the alcohol by heating it to 175 for a half hour, i.e. the usual process for making non-alcoholic beer? Or is there something else that's undesirable in that process in this case, besides the usual problem with too much bitterness?

Hops aren't the issue in this case, I've just been toying around with the idea of making a n/a pilot batch since a lot of people have asked me about it. I was thinking of kettle-souring with plantarum before boiling as usual (with hops). Ludwigii was the first option I thought of since it ferments like any other saccharomyces but the lack of alcohol creates issues if you're not pasteurizing.

 

[TripleSixHoppia]

Hops aren't the issue in this case, I've just been toying around with the idea of making a n/a pilot batch since a lot of people have asked me about it. I was thinking of kettle-souring with plantarum before boiling as usual (with hops). Ludwigii was the first option I thought of since it ferments like any other saccharomyces but the lack of alcohol creates issues if you're not pasteurizing.

I've done hop sodas that were around 1.030 that I added lemon and lime juice to it. I literally looked up 1 gallon lemonade recipes, scaled to 5 gallons, then converted that amount of sugar to a starting gravity and matched it with malt sugars. They turned out pretty good IMO. I've never used any of the NA yeast, but I assume it would be a similar profile. I don't see why your version wouldn't work.

 

[nanobrew1]

Anyone have advice for kegging sours? I cannot get the same magic as when bottling. The beer always seems to develop a rancid yeast profile over time. I have tried force carb, keg conditioning, letting sit for 3+mo, chilling as soon as carbed (immediately when force carb and after about 3wks when keg conditioning).

For bottling I know my beers take 4-8wks to condition properly but I have not had this off taste in them before.

 

[TripleSixHoppia]

Anyone have advice for kegging sours? I cannot get the same magic as when bottling. The beer always seems to develop a rancid yeast profile over time. I have tried force carb, keg conditioning, letting sit for 3+mo, chilling as soon as carbed (immediately when force carb and after about 3wks when keg conditioning).

For bottling I know my beers take 4-8wks to condition properly but I have not had this off taste in them before.

Are you re-yeasting and tying to eliminate as much O2 as possible?

I like using 3711/Belle Saison or Champagne Yeast to condition. 3711 and Belle will damn near ferment anything and take off quick. You really just want to scrub any oxygen pick up during packaging as fast as possible. Brett and Pedio can make some nasty **** once it reups oxygen.

 

[nanobrew1]

Are you re-yeasting and tying to eliminate as much O2 as possible?

I like using 3711/Belle Saison or Champagne Yeast to condition. 3711 and Belle will damn near ferment anything and take off quick. You really just want to scrub any oxygen pick up during packaging as fast as possible. Brett and Pedio can make some nasty **** once it reups oxygen.

I have not re-yeasted, as the main sours i make are berliners and they are only 2-3mo old. I will try this tip though. So i should use one of those yeast to keg condition? I do try to minimize oxygen but obviously not eliminating it enough.

 

[anteater1]

My lambic-inspired attempts do not seem to be faring well.

1st try: Simple pils & wheat, 2 hour boil, 3 oz aged hops, starter of Cantillon dregs stepped up twice. Its been aging for almost 2 years and tastes astringent as hell, bitter, and almost chemical. The frustrating thing is it smells like ******* Cantillon, so good. I knew the dreg starter with no other strain was ambitious, and chalked the results up to that.

2nd try: Simple pils & wheat, 2 hour boil, 3 oz aged hops, roseleare blend + 3-4 bottles worth of 3F dregs. I figured having a primary strain would save the day. This one is only 6 months old but tastes nearly the same as the older one, just terrible. It also smells exactly like ******* 3F.

Not sure if the hops I used were not aged as long as advertised, hence the bitter taste. My last three sours using primary strain + dregs turned out great so I'm not sure what went wrong here. Likely going to dump it all, quit the sour game for a bit and fill those carboys with barlywine...

 

[TripleSixHoppia]

My lambic-inspired attempts do not seem to be faring well.

1st try: Simple pils & wheat, 2 hour boil, 3 oz aged hops, starter of Cantillon dregs stepped up twice. Its been aging for almost 2 years and tastes astringent as hell, bitter, and almost chemical. The frustrating thing is it smells like ******* Cantillon, so good. I knew the dreg starter with no other strain was ambitious, and chalked the results up to that.

2nd try: Simple pils & wheat, 2 hour boil, 3 oz aged hops, roseleare blend + 3-4 bottles worth of 3F dregs. I figured having a primary strain would save the day. This one is only 6 months old but tastes nearly the same as the older one, just terrible. It also smells exactly like ******* 3F.

Not sure if the hops I used were not aged as long as advertised, hence the bitter taste. My last three sours using primary strain + dregs turned out great so I'm not sure what went wrong here. Likely going to dump it all, quit the sour game for a bit and fill those carboys with barlywine...

Is it like fingernail polish? Acetone can be really bad becasue certain strains of Clostridium produce it. Just make sure to dump it because it could be dangerous. That said it also could just be Brett getting too much oxygen.

I would suggest using some sort of decent sacc strain to start off fermentation. That way you get a healthy, quick start that will out compete anything nasty. Also I would try using glass carboys with a rubber stopper make sure to keep your airlocks full.

It does suck to have something around for that long and it go bad.

 

[anteater1]

Is it like fingernail polish? Acetone can be really bad becasue certain strains of Clostridium produce it. Just make sure to dump it because it could be dangerous. That said it also could just be Brett getting too much oxygen.

It didn't remind me of My Blueberry Nightmare, which was straight up nail polish remover... but thinking back on it, that could be the case. I haven't had issues with brett & oxygen before, especially in just 6 months, when my other wilds have matured for 2+ years no problem. Either way you've convinced me to dump it and move on. That's what I get for attempting to play god and make homemade lambic lol.

I would suggest using some sort of decent sacc strain to start off fermentation. That way you get a healthy, quick start that will out compete anything nasty. Also I would try using glass carboys with a rubber stopper make sure to keep your airlocks full.

This is what has worked very well for me in the past, and is what I'll revert back to. Cheers!

 

[JCastle1]

Any recommendations on hops to use for an American pilsner? I'm thinking of going German with the grist (no maize) and American with the hops (maybe Sterling).

 

[user 307594]

Any recommendations on hops to use for an American pilsner? I'm thinking of going German with the grist (no maize) and American with the hops (maybe Sterling).

Not sure exactly what hop character you're looking for, but a couple things I thought of: Saphir which is what firestone walker uses in pivo pils, I use saaz and australian summer in my pils, and zero gravity here in vermont uses mandarina bavaria in their keller which is delicious.

 

[JCastle1]

Not sure exactly what hop character you're looking for, but a couple things I thought of: Saphir which is what firestone walker uses in pivo pils, I use saaz and australian summer in my pils, and zero gravity here in vermont uses mandarina bavaria in their keller which is delicious.

Can't believe I didn't think of Saphir, definitely a good choice in this case. I'm looking for a more classic profile with maybe a touch of citrus. That Mandarina pils sounds tasty but I already use those in my wheat beer and I'm looking to switch it up a bit.

 

[Phischy1]

I have not re-yeasted, as the main sours i make are berliners and they are only 2-3mo old. I will try this tip though. So i should use one of those yeast to keg condition? I do try to minimize oxygen but obviously not eliminating it enough.

When I keg from carboys into an open/purged keg I'll slap the CO2 on and let it flow at 2-3psi to push air out of the keg and right before the racking cane starts pulling in air I'll clamp the hose to prevent air coming down the line.

That's for regular beer...but I have 4 sours to keg this weekend. All experimental with some lessons learned.

 

[Phischy1]

If you're going to make a sour starter to step up the bugs, should it be made with a non-fermentable to discourage the Sacc from stepping up too?

 

[doobiegoobie]

If you're going to make a sour starter to step up the bugs, should it be made with a non-fermentable to discourage the Sacc from stepping up too?

I usually don't, but I prefer restrained sourness so I tend to want to encourage the sacc to do it's thing. There'll be plenty of bug character still, though there are things to do if you want to encourage certain flavors from the bugs.

 

[Phischy1]

I usually don't, but I prefer restrained sourness so I tend to want to encourage the sacc to do it's thing. There'll be plenty of bug character still, though there are things to do if you want to encourage certain flavors from the bugs.

This would be going into a beer as a 2nd stage that's already had a Sacc pitch.

 

[doobiegoobie]

This would be going into a beer as a 2nd stage that's already had a Sacc pitch.

Ohh. I think you'd be fine stepping up as normal then. To the extent that it's finished, the sacc won't have much to work with and the brett and can do it's thing. Another option, if you're gonna let it sit a while, is to just dump the dregs in as is and not step up. You should have some character in a few months. But again, I'm all about balanced/restrained sours so this might not be what you're looking for.

 

[Phischy1]

Ohh. I think you'd be fine stepping up as normal then. To the extent that it's finished, the sacc won't have much to work with and the brett and can do it's thing. Another option, if you're gonna let it sit a while, is to just dump the dregs in as is and not step up. You should have some character in a few months. But again, I'm all about balanced/restrained sours so this might not be what you're looking for.

My thought with the DME is the Sacc would consume it before the bugs had a chance to grow.

I'll probably just direct pitch, just seeking ideas. I'd also like to get a culture going for future uses.

 

[neorunner]

Aerobic vs anerobic environments and what the differing bugs want might play a bigger role here. Would depend on the bugs you're pitching.

 

[anteater1]

Holy ****! I just placed for the first time in a homebrew competition, and it was 1st in American IPA out of 43 entries, I can't believe it.

 

[Phischy1]

Aerobic vs anerobic environments and what the differing bugs want might play a bigger role here. Would depend on the bugs you're pitching.

In this case, dregs from Supplication

 

[anteater1]

I've got two round of "worth it or nah?" for you guys...

1) Cold crashing IPA's?

I never do it, mainly because I don't want to worry about air getting sucked in and oxidizing my beer. I know there are CO2 capturing solutions but they seem like a bit too much work. I just use an auto-siphon filter and pour relatively clear beer in a decent amount of time. I've been reading about cold crashing before dry hopping to improve hop character but opinions seem split on the impact.

2) Keg hopping IPA's?

I never do this either, my worst nightmare is bits of debris in my glass causing a grainy mouthfeel. But I'm curious about using my auto-siphon filter to load up 1-2 oz of pellets of cryo and tossing it in the keg. I feel like contact wit hops right before bottling off the keg could really help with competitions as well.

 

[ChaQuiseman]

I've got two round of "worth it or nah?" for you guys...
1) Cold crashing IPA's?
2) Keg hopping IPA's?

It kind of depends on what you're going for with a given beer, but I tend to do both of the things you're questioning about.

1) Cold crashing - I typically either ferment in a corny keg with a shortened dip-tube or in a SS Brewtech Brew Bucket. In both of those cases, I dump all kettle trub and whirlpool hops directly into the fermenter and additionally, I add my dry hops directly to said fermenter (without a bag) for better surface-area exposure. Because of all of this extra trub/hop matter, I find that I have to cold crash for several days to get all of the particulate out of suspension and to keep it from clogging lines during a transfer. There's also the added benefit of clearer beer, however this isn't typically my goal - I'm simply trying to facilitate transfer to a serving vessel.

2) Keg hopping - Since I've started doing this, I've had IPAs that were still in "day-one-condition" up to three months after being tapped. Since your kegerator is cold, you'll only get hop debris for the first 24 hours-or-so after adding keg hops, since they'll tend to settle to the bottom of the keg. I also use a "clear beer draught system" to avoid pulling any sediment into my pours.

Overall, cold crashing probably isn't going to change your game all that much unless you have issues with clogged transfers. I would absolutely advocate for keg hopping however - it is a game changer and you'll be serving the "freshest-seeming" beers you've ever tasted.

 

[bum732]

I've got two round of "worth it or nah?" for you guys...

1) Cold crashing IPA's?

I never do it, mainly because I don't want to worry about air getting sucked in and oxidizing my beer. I know there are CO2 capturing solutions but they seem like a bit too much work. I just use an auto-siphon filter and pour relatively clear beer in a decent amount of time. I've been reading about cold crashing before dry hopping to improve hop character but opinions seem split on the impact.

2) Keg hopping IPA's?

I never do this either, my worst nightmare is bits of debris in my glass causing a grainy mouthfeel. But I'm curious about using my auto-siphon filter to load up 1-2 oz of pellets of cryo and tossing it in the keg. I feel like contact wit hops right before bottling off the keg could really help with competitions as well.

Used to do both, now don't do neither for the reasons you gave. I am upgrading my SS brewbucket soon to allow cold crashing without Oxygen "contamination", between that and my closed transfer system I have, I've had decent success minimizing oxidation.

Edit: Main reason I don't keg hop anymore is clogged poppets. Drives me nuts.

 

[anteater1]

SS Brewtech Brew Bucket.

SS brewbucket

Not quite what I imagined when I heard "bucket", those things look damn cool!

 

[ChaQuiseman]

Not quite what I imagined when I heard "bucket", those things look damn cool!

The rotating dip tube/coned bottom is what sold me on them. There are a few solutions out there which trap CO2 to prevent oxygen suck back during cold-crashing/transfers as well.