Ranco Wiring, what did I do wrong?

[Bsquared]

I have two RANCO 111000 ETC's one was to control the pump, to circulate the wort through the heat exchanger. the heat exchanger is a 120VAC water heating element in a small picnic cooler. I heat exchanger works well when not wired to the RANCO, when I hooked it up to the ranco it would heat to the desired temp then make rapid clicking noises, I assume from switching on and off, and not turn off.

any suggestions on how to wire these up?

I wired it up like it said in the insert for 120VAC ...

 

[david_42]

Check to see if the differential temperature is set to 0F (DF1 setting). This should be at least 2 degrees to avoid a lot of power cycling.

 

[Bsquared]

I had the df1 set to 5ºF.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Double check your wiring - especially for loose connections. Those terminals inside the Ranco units can be a little tricky sometimes.

 

[Bsquared]

Damm it! well I think I might have messed things up, now when I wire ether one up through the NO (normally open) circuit nothing comes on, when I run it through the NC ( Normally closed ) Circuit the unit works till it hits the set temp, then it starts clicking...

Any one know if there is a reset for these things?

I must have screwed something up with this. I was trying to wire a control box to allow me to run the pump alone, the pump under control of the ETC, and the pump connected to a level sensor, so I must have crossed some thing up and fried my ETC's....Fart knockers...

 

[MA_Brewer]

These can be set for either heat or cool mode - make sure it is set for heat. It sounds like you might have it reversed.

Also, how many watts is the heater?

 

[Bsquared]

Also, how many watts is the heater?

120v, 2000W. it that too big of a load for it?

 

[MA_Brewer]

120v, 2000W. it that too big of a load for it?

Technically, it is just over the limit for the unit (The capacity of the 111000 is 16A @ 120v, which would be 1920 watts.)

I wouldn't think that going over by a small amount would cause it to act the way you are describing, though. Unless you are doing something strange with your control, there shouldn't be a need for you to use the NC contact - your device, for either heating or cooling, would normally be hooked up to the NO contact. The device will automatically close the NO contact (activate the relay) when the temp is below the set point in heat mode, or when it is above the set point in cool mode.

 

[MA_Brewer]

OK - I just poked around at my Ranco a little - I took some pics so you can see how mine is wired. I tined the ends of my wire so it would stay put.

One big correction: On the load - as you can see from the pic of the spec plate (which is inside the controller) the NO contacts have way more capacity than the NC contacts - so you can't even come close to using the heater element on the NC contacts. Also, for a resistive load (FLA & LRA are for motors, RES is for resistive loads) the capacity of the NO contact is 15amps, which would be 15*120=1800watts max.

Don't know if this helps at all, but some pics:

NOTE: WIRE ON THE LEFT IS THE LOAD

 

[Bsquared]

Thanks that helps out a lot, I had mine wired just like yours at first, but experienced the problems after I tried to hook it up to the heater.now I can't wire it through the NO input. guess I just wasted 100 bucks, well I've had strippers take it faster, but I think these are wasted.

I guess I'll have to figure some thing out.

 

[Jester369]

If you do decide you need to replace it, don't spend another $100 - check out eBay. There is a guy selling the 111000 new for around $60 with free shipping.

 

[Bsquared]

I got two on ebay for 119, with shipping, and wasted them both I think.

I think the problem is the load of the heating element, so I am hesitant to hook a new one up. I will have to consult my brother's father in-law who is an electrition. I think for now I will use one as an expensive thermometer and install a toggle switch to the power of the heater so i can run the HERMS manually. Atleast then I can get a few test batches out to see if there is an improvement in my Mash, and this contraption is worth the effort .

The good thing is I redesigned my Mash tun for this project, and have really been impressed with it. And I have a functioning pump, so no more lifting of hot wort! I'll have to post some Pic's of it later today.

 

[MA_Brewer]

I got two on ebay for 119, with shipping, and wasted them both I think.

I think the problem is the load of the heating element, so I am hesitant to hook a new one up. I will have to consult my brother's father in-law who is an electrition. I think for now I will use one as an expensive thermometer and install a toggle switch to the power of the heater so i can run the HERMS manually. Atleast then I can get a few test batches out to see if there is an improvement in my Mash, and this contraption is worth the effort .

The good thing is I redesigned my Mash tun for this project, and have really been impressed with it. And I have a functioning pump, so no more lifting of hot wort! I'll have to post some Pic's of it later today.

Do the Ranco's still work with a smaller load? You can use them (or a new one) to operate your heating element using a contactor (relay) such as this one http://secure.data-comm.com/GL/Detail.bok?no=120988 or these http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/12768/229240/229248/1313100/print.html so long as you are comforatble building it into an enclosure (the contactor, not the Ranco).

You can get them fairly cheaply on eBay as well.

 

[Bsquared]

Thanks, I think that is what I need is some thing to step down the load. would that be installed to the load line before the RANCO or after? I'd think It would be between the ETC and the heater, but as you can tell I know vary little when it comes to electronics.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

To "step" down your heating element, you need to put a big resistor in series with it. By "big," I don't mean high resistance value, I mean high load rating, which will mean a physically large resistor.

For example (simplifying some of the math):
7.2 ohms * 16.67A = 120V
16.67A * 120V = 2000W
So, your heating element is like a 7.2 ohm resistor drawing 2000 Watts.

Put a 1 ohm resistor in series with it, and you get:
8.2 ohms * 14.63 Amps = 120V
14.63A * 120V = 1756W
1756 watts is close to the max load rating of your Ranco, so a 1 ohm resistor will work well.

Furthermore:
1 ohm * 14.63A = 14.63V
14.63A * 14.63V = 214W
So, your 1 ohm resistor has a voltage drop of 14.63 volts at 14.63 amps, drawing 214 watts of power.

I found a resistor on eBay that will work for you.

 

[Bsquared]

Thanks Yuri_Rage and MA_brewer, for the help and the Math tutorial, I think I am going to read up on residential electricity before my next project. In the mean time I ordered that resistor and I have a new RANCO on the way. I'll post how it works when I get it all hooked up.

Thanks

 

[user 574]

Damm it! well I think I might have messed things up, now when I wire ether one up through the NO (normally open) circuit nothing comes on, when I run it through the NC ( Normally closed ) Circuit the unit works till it hits the set temp, then it starts clicking...

Any one know if there is a reset for these things?

I must have screwed something up with this. I was trying to wire a control box to allow me to run the pump alone, the pump under control of the ETC, and the pump connected to a level sensor, so I must have crossed some thing up and fried my ETC's....Fart knockers...

You ever figure something out here? I just got mine today; wired it up and it responds exactly like you stated here. NO shows notta; NC once it is to open the circuit it makes the same clicking noise. I know I wired it up correctly too. This was with no load at all ever on the unit. I hate ebay sometimes and this is one of those times.

 

[Bsquared]

I just got my replacement today and had not had a chance to wire it up. where did you get yours from? did you have the unit hooked up to any thing? I

was thinking that when I did all this I really never got the unit to power up when It was connected to to NC (Normally closed) because I was wiring up a control box that would control two plug inputs, but I never had them closed by connecting them to the heater or the motor . I am going to try to wire up the motor tomorrow, with the new controller, I'll keep you posted.

 

[user 574]

Mine came from All Thermal Supply. Never had anything hooked up to it. I'm just splicing in an extension cord for my chest freezer. Everything was wired in correctly to my knowledge (I went to school for electronics servicing although forgot more than I learned ). Power was getting to the NC load lead; resistance checks to the all the other connections proved no shorts. No output power coming out of the stage 1 C connection.

I'm going to call them today but these kinds of things they usually fault the installer. Maybe I need to send them some credential that I'm not a moron in this regard.

 

[Dude]

I'm going to call them today but these kinds of things they usually fault the installer. Maybe I need to send them some credential that I'm not a moron in this regard.

That would be the first thing out of my mouth in the phone conversation. Tell them you have an electrical background and you are positive they sent a faulty one.

 

[user 574]

Bsquared - I'm suspecting you wired it up wrong like me... Your load (heater/cooler) gets wired into the bottom left connectors and input power to the block on the middle right. If I wasn't a bit loaded last night I would have seen the schematic without beer goggles.

Works fine now. I suspect you now have 3 fully functional ETC's in your possession.

 

[skifast1]

Do the Ranco's still work with a smaller load? You can use them (or a new one) to operate your heating element using a contactor (relay) such as this one http://secure.data-comm.com/GL/Detail.bok?no=120988 or these http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/12768/229240/229248/1313100/print.html so long as you are comforatble building it into an enclosure (the contactor, not the Ranco).

You can get them fairly cheaply on eBay as well.

FYI - I went with a solid-state relay from mouser.com to avoid any wattage issues with my heating element (1500w). See thread here (skip to page 2 - my first schematic is shameful). MonsterMash is the man when it comes to wiring up an enclosure.

 

[Bsquared]

Bsquared - I'm suspecting you wired it up wrong like me... Your load (heater/cooler) gets wired into the bottom left connectors and input power to the block on the middle right. If I wasn't a bit loaded last night I would have seen the schematic without beer goggles.

Works fine now. I suspect you now have 3 fully functional ETC's in your possession.

Wooo Hoo, thats what I did, wired it backward...I'm Greek what can I say.

Thanks for the Info!

 

[user 574]

Yea, in the electronics world we got this little thing called I/O. We usually like to state input/output on our schematics ; not just load (must be electrician talk). Still, our fault for not reading that right. I'm happy as **** as well.

 

[Beerrific]

Bsquared - I'm suspecting you wired it up wrong like me... Your load (heater/cooler) gets wired into the bottom left connectors and input power to the block on the middle right. If I wasn't a bit loaded last night I would have seen the schematic without beer goggles.

Works fine now. I suspect you now have 3 fully functional ETC's in your possession.

I bought a Ranco last week. I had read this post. Sat down to wire it up last night. Finished and plugged it in, nothing. So, I wired it backwards too. We should start a club. Works now!

 

[HarvInSTL]

Hmm, I think I might have mine wired wrong too. I have mine wired like the pic on the first page.

Let me see if I figure how to wire it correctly.

When I have it wired like that first pic I don't get anything.

I'm an idiot. I fixed it. Can I join the club too?

 

[Onescalerguy]

Questions:is the "common"wire black,white or green?Should i use NO or NC(for a keezer)and which wire(see colors above)?Which color wire for 120v input?What to do with third wire(remaining color)?Sorry but i'm a freakin retard where wiring is concerned.Thanks.
Cheers

 

[Beerrific]

Questions:is the "common"wire black,white or green?Should i use NO or NC(for a keezer)and which wire(see colors above)?Which color wire for 120v input?What to do with third wire(remaining color)?Sorry but i'm a freakin retard where wiring is concerned.Thanks.
Cheers

Use NO.

Common is usually white, should check this though...it is the one that has the larger prong...on the left when you look at the wall socket.

See here: http://www.rancoetc.com/pdf/ranco_etc_instructions.pdf

Use the diagram on page 4, bottom left.

Bring in common from your plug connect to 'COM' and to the device.
Bring the hot from the plug to '120.' Connect '120' to 'C.'
Connect 'NO' to the hot of the device.

 

[Onescalerguy]

Beerific
If i follow your instructions,what happens to the green wires?Are those silver screws on the bottom corners for the third(green wires)?I'm still kinda confused
Cheers

 

[Beerrific]

Beerific
If i follow your instructions,what happens to the green wires?Are those silver screws on the bottom corners for the third(green wires)?I'm still kinda confused
Cheers

Green wires are ground, just tie those together no need to be wired to the Ranco.

There are 2 right? One from the device and one from the plug side?

Not sure about the silver screws, if they are not connected to the electronics they could just be a post for th grounds. I think I just tied my grounds together with a wire nut.

 

[Onescalerguy]

Beerrific,
A thousand thank-you's my friend.I wired the thing up per your instructions and voila,a working temp control!You are truly BEERIFFIC!!!!!!!!
Cheers