Radler

[grey487]

Hey everyone, thanks for taking the time to read this! I have a friend who is interested in homebrewing so I told him to pick out a style he likes and we would make a batch and I'd teach him the basics. Of course he picked something totally off the wall! So I know in Germany/Bavaria they typically mix it at the tap but Sam adams has a premixed radler "porch rocker".
My question is: how would you mix 1/2 lemonade with 1/2 Helles Beer without blowing all the caps off the bottles due to the sugar in the lemonade fermenting in the bottle? I would be using a brewers best Helles kit that has a lager yeast which will work at ale temps.

 

[Phyrst]

You could try dumping crystal light lemonaide mix in there. It's just flavoring with no sugar in it.

 

[grey487]

Yes I could try crystal light, and I saw a previous thread where someone suggested real lemons for the lemonade and replacing the sugar with splenda. I want that fresh lemon flavor if I do this (isn't the freshness factor a ig reason we all homebrew to begin with?) I'm not opposed to doing the splenda thing with real lemons but I just wanted to see if someone has tried (and had sucess) making radler this way? I would hate to show someone interested in brewing how to do it and have it end up being foul.

 

[harrymanback92]

I haven't done this at all, but when I'm cooking and want an intense lemon flavor I use lemon zest.

So, I'm thinking maybe you can A) add zest of like 4 or 5 lemons and bottle a couple days later. B) zest 4 or 5 lemons, soak in decent vodka for a week, and add the vodka to the beer. You wont have to add to much vodka so it won't effect your abv much at all.

IMO, ive had beers with fruit juice added to them(mainly 21st amendments watermelon wheat) and to me the beers taste sorta watered down. So I'd consider trying to find a way to isolate the flavor/aroma without to much juice.

But again, I've never done this, but if seems logical.

And maybe someone can answer this, would the acids in a lemon effect head retention?

 

[grey487]

I agree with you about watering it down and if it were just for me I wouldn't be doing this style, but since I'm helping a friend I'm looking to stick with a true Radler (1/2 Helles and 1/2 lemonade). It seems like I'm going to have a problem with finding people who have done it before. Thanks for the input though!

 

[Jipper]

I too am interested in brewing a Radler beer for the end of summer but am uncertain of how to tackle it right now. My initial thought is that the acidity in the lemonade might lower the pH of the beer to a point where standard beer yeast will not be able to operate, but it looks like lemonade averages a pH of ~3 (sacchro can withstand down to a 2.8 in some cases). You could filter the beer and counter-pressure fill the bottles out of a keg, but it sounds like that may not be an option?

Not certain if the acidity in the lemonade will reduce head retention though - that's a great question.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Well every Radler I drank in Germany when I lived there was simply 50% pilsner beer and 50% Sprite. It's not pre-made like that Sam Adams idiocy. Thus, two points:

1) Your friend is a wuss. Is his next request Zima?
2) Make yourself a pilsner and buy him a 2-liter of Sprite.

 

[grey487]

Thanks Matt, you are bringing up things i haven't even thought about. No kegging isn't an option for me yet. Assuming the acidity isn't a problem I guess I'm left with the question of when to mix the lemonade with the Helles. My original thought was to ferment 5 gallons of Helles, in an ale pale, then split it between 2 carboys and top them off with the lemonade. I'm not sure if, given 2 weeks to ferment, I would even end up with something that tastes like a beer/lemonade mix. I'm thinking that mixing them in the bottling bucket may be the way to go. I am concerned about the head retention, Ive had enough issues with beer being undercarbed.

 

[kaz4121]

why not add the lemonade during secondary? I've never had a radler nor have I had Porch Rocker, but I have had and made Brandon O's Graff (cider-beer hybrid) and I think you may be able to treat it the same way. I would brew your 2.5 gallons of hefe and ferment for a week or two, then add 2.5 gallons of lemonade (I would go with the real stuff here, not the powder), leave in secondary for at least two weeks, til you get consistent hydro readings, then bottle up.

 

[diS]

I am adding some lemon flavor to few bottles of my last brewed "plisner ale". I know it is not Radler but it may help you, my process is:

1. Peel thin part of lemon skin with potato peeler.
2. Soak it in cheap vodka and leave it for 2-3 weeks.
3. Find out best concentration/bottle by adding small volume of lemon solution to bottle of similar beer (with syringe).
4. Add solution in few bottles at bottling time.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I would just make a helles and mix it separately. Seriously, what's the harm? Why risk F'ing up an entire batch? As a homebrewer, you surely realize the complications introduced by trying to add the equivalent of 50% soda pop into a beer. The sweetness could ferment out, the taste could just be nasty, the acidity could screw with the yeast, the preservatives could stall fermentation, etc... That's a lot of downside for... what? You mix a carbonated soda with a carbonated beer when you're ready to drink it. That's how it's done traditionally.

Brew the base beer, make it good. Have the soda lying around to mix in.

What you're trying to do is take a traditional mixed drink and turn it into a one-step process like Sam Adams has done, with limited success. Why? It's always been a two step process, and it works fine as a two-step process...

 

[grey487]

I see your point Sir. I'm beginning to accept that may be the way I have to go.

 

[HeavyKettleBrewing]

I see your point Sir. I'm beginning to accept that may be the way I have to go.

Search the forums. I believe I read two seperate threads where members have done this. One with Simply Lemonade and the other with flat Mtn Dew. On Brewing TV, they simply mixed lemonade with beer at serving time. I had considered the Simply Lemonade recipe buy never got around to it. Let us know what you do and how it came out. It sounds like your friend is challenging you.

 

[grey487]

Yes, I do feel challenged at this point. Unless I hear from someone who has put the mix into a bottle and had good results I think I'm going to do 4 gallons of straight helles beer and use the last gallon of beer to mix with the lemonade in a seperate secondary. I fqigure 3 weeks in the secondary should release any excess carbonation and keep me from having exploding boittles. I guess how it tastes is going to be a mystery for about 6 weeks.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Just a note on Raddler...

Raddler in Germany is a mix of Helles (or other pale beer) and Sprite/7-Up. In Europe (and this stems from the UK actually), you'll hear people say that shandy is a mix of beer and "lemonade". The lemonade they refer to is Sprite/7-Up, NOT lemonade as we do it in the 'States/Canada. US/Cdn lemonade is referred to in the UK as "Lemon squash".

I still prefer to mix at serving time as one can decide how much/little Sprite they mix in.

MC

 

[Whiskey]

Just a note on Raddler...

Raddler in Germany is a mix of Helles (or other pale beer) and Sprite/7-Up. In Europe (and this stems from the UK actually), you'll hear people say that shandy is a mix of beer and "lemonade". The lemonade they refer to is Sprite/7-Up, NOT lemonade as we do it in the 'States/Canada. US/Cdn lemonade is referred to in the UK as "Lemon squash".

I still prefer to mix at serving time as one can decide how much/little Sprite they mix in.

MC

This. Although I have never seen a Radler made with Sprite/7UP in Germany, it is always with Fanta Lemon (or another brand that has slipped my mind), but they do not make that here so you would have make do with what you have.

Also from my understanding SA's Porch Rocker is just lemon flavored. If I was trying to reproduce it I'd add pure lemon juice in a secondary. There should be no sugars in fresh squeezed lemon juice so you should not get an extra fermentation; it would be a matter of adding the right amount to get the lemon flavor without being tart. I'd also brew the beer a bit sweeter then what the style dictates.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

This. Although I have never seen a Radler made with Sprite/7UP in Germany, it is always with Fanta Lemon (or another brand that has slipped my mind),

I've seen both murky (a la Fanta Lemon) and and non-murky (soda based) Radlers. I've also seen Coke weizen...

MC

 

[Whiskey]

Yeah the other brand I am thinking of is a clear soda, but is lemon flavored, not lemon lime.

And yes Cola Weizen, Banana Hefe's etc are not uncommon.

Edit: You can also buy Radler pre-mixed in the can at gas stations.

 

[DromJohn]

Back in the late '60's in Ulm, it was San Pellegrino Lemonata.

AHS Lemongrass Ginger Ale brought back memories of radlers, so consider brewing with lemongrass.

 

[HopSong]

That's what I had when our hosts introduced us to the Radler. Half 7-up, half Helles It was a nice refreshing drink, IMO.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I agree with you about watering it down and if it were just for me I wouldn't be doing this style, but since I'm helping a friend I'm looking to stick with a true Radler (1/2 Helles and 1/2 lemonade). It seems like I'm going to have a problem with finding people who have done it before. Thanks for the input though!

I've done it before. I wouldn't go half and half. That would be too much lemonade.

There's ways to stop yeast from eating your sugary lemonade.

Really cold temps is one way. Filtering the yeast out is another.

 

[tarawa]

Radlers sound like a waste of a good pilsner beer.

 

[BrewLocal365]

I was just in Bavaria two weeks ago. Radler is definitely not a mix-in of 7up/sprite. Traditionally it's lemonade but most places do use a lemon fanta equivalent these days.

+1 to those who said to just brew the Helles and mix it in separately. That way not only do you avoid having to argue the above ("you added the wrong thing!" - just let people mix in what they want), but you also dodge many possible complications.

More importantly, I think the way that larger brewers are able to pre-bottle these is by pasteurizing / sterilizing the beer to halt any additional carbonation and then by force-carbing the bottles. Don't expect the same results at home through bottle fermentation!

Also, I find that the pre-bottled versions such as Leinenkugel's Summer Shandy pale in comparison to the real thing and taste very "chemically" and not at all what it tastes like if you get the same on tap and mixed in fresh. I suspect that they make some trade-off modifications for shelf stability.

There's too many moving pieces here and you'd be trying to re-create something that isn't really a small batch bottling operation. Maybe there is a path to be found to good results but it would be a roll of the dice. Brewing and bottling a Helles on the other hand, is predictable!

 

[slamman190]

What about doing it this way:
Make a batch of pilsner/helles, bottle carbonate it.
then once done open the bottles, and pour half the beer into empty bottles (all sanitized of course). Now top up with lemon soda/lemonade, no worries about sugar, and recap all the bottles.
Next step would be to pasteurize them to kill the yeasties.
viola, pre-mixed Radler in bottles!

Beyond the extra work, any reason this would not work???

 

[FatDragon]

The only Radler I've ever had was done with grapefruit instead of lemon and tasted absolutely delicious. Stiegl Radler on draft from King's Biergarten in Pearland, Texas. I don't know how it stands up to other Radlers, but it was a great, refreshing summer evening drink to start the meal before I moved on to the liter steins of Optimator.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I was just in Bavaria two weeks ago. Radler is definitely not a mix-in of 7up/sprite. Traditionally it's lemonade but most places do use a lemon fanta equivalent these days.

I was in Germany 8 times over the last 14 years and I've never seen Radler made with lemonade (as per the US definition). It's always been lemon/lime based soda (similar to 7-up/Sprite).

This notion that lemonade is used is because often times, in Europe, "lemonade" is defined as the clear, lemon based soda, while in the US, lemonade is defined as lemon-based drink made at home (usually not clear).

Go anywhere in the UK and ask for a lemonade, you will get 7-up or Sprite.

MC

 

[skw]

I was in Germany 8 times over the last 14 years and I've never seen Radler made with lemonade (as per the US definition). It's always been lemon/lime based soda (similar to 7-up/Sprite).

It is lemon based soda, but rarely is it as sweet as 7up or Sprite.
To add to the original topic, a local brewery (I'm in southern Germany) is bottling their Radler with sugar-free "lemonade" to avoid having to pasteurize. Another brewery here is even advertising sugar-free non-alcoholic Radler as an isotonic sports drink...

 

[danhercules]

Coors has a Radler now. Not bad at all. Little sweet. I make them all the time at home. I like using Sierra Mist natural made with real sugar and I use maybe 1/3 MAX.

Also, I like it better with a good Hef, called a Rüs.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[LandoLincoln]

What about doing it this way:
Make a batch of pilsner/helles, bottle carbonate it.
then once done open the bottles, and pour half the beer into empty bottles (all sanitized of course). Now top up with lemon soda/lemonade, no worries about sugar, and recap all the bottles.
Next step would be to pasteurize them to kill the yeasties.
viola, pre-mixed Radler in bottles!

Beyond the extra work, any reason this would not work???

Oxidation issues. It will be fine if you drink them within a few days though. But if you drink them within a few days then you probably don't have to worry about the yeasts feasting on the sugars from the lemonade.

I don't know much about pasteurizing, but taking a carbonated drink in a glass bottle and heating it to yeast-killing temps would possibly give you bottle bombs or flat beer. I think pasteurizing normally takes place before carbonation. But I could be wrong about this.

 

[patthebrewer]

A Radler, is meant to be a german version of a sports drink for cyclists, hence the name "Radler" which mean cyclist....gotta love the germans. It's the same as the English Shandy in concept. Frankly the way I've done it, is after fermentation, to mix 2/3 pilsner, with 1/3 lemonade. At temps below 40 degrees you won't have to worry about futher fermentation. Plus it always goes real quick

At room temp bottling maybe you could filter with a super fine filter, and use campden to kill the yeast (like wine makers do) before adding the lemonade.

As always your results may vary....slainte!