Racking beer to secondary too early

[mikesmith1611]

I have just brewed my first biab and used a secondary fermentation stage for the first time. I have read many different opinions on when to rack the beer from primary to secondary. I decided to do it after 4 days when the bulk of the ferm had finnished and the head reduced. After being in the secondary for another week the final gravity is stuck at about 5-8 points above expected. Could this be because I racked over too soon or just that its finnished ?
Any comments on this would be appreciated!

 

[RM-MN]

Yes....or maybe no. Racking early can result in a stuck fermentation but there are factors that can influence the final gravity of your beer when doing all grain. Mash temp is one, as an inaccurate thermometer can cause you to mash at a little higher than expected temperature leading you to more dextrines that are unfermentable. The mix of grains has an effect as does the yeast you used. Some yeasts ferment out better than others. Without your recipe and some more info on your process I'm stuck with just guessing.

 

[mikesmith1611]

Thanks for the speedy reply, this was the first time i created my own recipe on beer smith, i originally tried to clone hobgoblin however i went a bit ott on the choclate malt (still tastes great so far tho). I kind of invented my own partial mash biab method:
2kg maris otter
500g crystal
250g carapils
250g chocolate
1kg light dry malt extract
50g fuggles hops and 50g styrian goldings (shared over 3 stages 60 min 30 min 15)
Mashed in the bag for 1 hour at around 67c in 3gal water
1 hour boil
Then topped up with water to make the 5 gal batch
OG 1052 (as expected)
FG 1018 ( expected 1012-1014)
Safale 04 dry yeast no starter

 

[40watt]

4 days? What prompted that decision? Unless you are introducing bugs in secondary, which might cause you to WANT to stall fermentation, I would never be so impatient again.

 

[usfmikeb]

With that much crystal and cara, I suspect you're at your FG.

 

[mikesmith1611]

4 days? What prompted that decision? Unless you are introducing bugs in secondary, which might cause you to WANT to stall fermentation, I would never be so impatient again.

I read on several websites that moving the beer of the yeast cake as early as possible will result in better tasting beer (once the initial krausen has dropped) so i thought i would try it. Having read other sites I am told to wait until ferm has completely finnished. So as a new brewer i thought its best to experiment myself and learn from my mistakes. Next time i will wait for the ferm to stop before moving to secondary for further clearing. What do you think?

 

[mikesmith1611]

With that much crystal and cara, I suspect you're at your FG.

Is this because they have less fermentables? What kind of percentage of the grain bill would u recommend for speciality malts?
excuse my ingnorence i am new to brewing but this is what sites like this are for!

 

[usfmikeb]

Yes, they have less fermentables. There's no magic ratio of how much to use, it would be dependent on style. However, 5-10% of total fermentables is probably a good benchmark maximum.

 

[mikesmith1611]

Yes, they have less fermentables. There's no magic ratio of how much to use, it would be dependent on style. However, 5-10% of total fermentables is probably a good benchmark maximum.

So if i wanted to create a darker beer by adding for instance more chocolate malt am I in danger of over doing it? Is there any base grains that will give darkness body and flavour? It also seems that beer smiths example of the colour of the beer under estimates how dark it will be!

 

[usfmikeb]

The choc malt is fine, as it won't really contribute much in the way of fermentables. Munich and Vienna are base malts that contribute more color, but if you're targeting UK beers, stick with Maris Otter and add specialty grains for color, flavor, and complexity.

 

[mikesmith1611]

So why is it different for crystal/carapils as they also have less fermentables?

 

[40watt]

I read on several websites that moving the beer of the yeast cake as early as possible will result in better tasting beer (once the initial krausen has dropped) so i thought i would try it. Having read other sites I am told to wait until ferm has completely finnished. So as a new brewer i thought its best to experiment myself and learn from my mistakes. Next time i will wait for the ferm to stop before moving to secondary for further clearing. What do you think?

You have no need to fear of flavors from healthy yeast for a month or two at the homebrew level.

While using your hydrometer to verify completion of fermentation is your only sure way, it's important to remember different strains of yeast, different grain bills, and mash schedule all affect fermentation speed.

Even if your fermentation were finished in four days, if you give it a few more days the yeast will do some house cleaning and floculate(fall out of solution) according to their own strain specific characteristics.

On smaller beers lots of folks cold crash and/or fine after a week and keg or bottle after two, but I tend to leave my yeast alone for at least two weeks before I verify final gravity with two hydro readings a few days apart.

I'm just not ever in a big hurry. Now that I am going to be kegging some, I might alter that speed a batch into a keg, but I doubt it.

 

[mikesmith1611]

Is there any danger of loosing all of the live yeast by leaving it too long as you need live yeast for priming. (i have never force carbonated my beer and always seem to have enough pressure in the barrel/bottles)

 

[unionrdr]

Even beer allowed to settle out clear has plenty of yeast to carbonate in the bottles with. You have to remember they're microscopic fungi.

 

[usfmikeb]

So why is it different for crystal/carapils as they also have less fermentables?

The choc malt doesn't really have much in the way of fermentables, they're destroyed by the roasting process.

 

[landshark]

4 days is quick... Maybe not too quick though.

I usually go 2 weeks Primary, 2 weeks plus secondary unless it is a wheat, then it 1 and 1 then keg. But at least a week in Primary.

As stated, you are probably finished. and if not, big deal, keg it and drink it.

 

[40watt]

Is there any danger of loosing all of the live yeast by leaving it too long as you need live yeast for priming. (i have never force carbonated my beer and always seem to have enough pressure in the barrel/bottles)

On the small scale that we brew in, the yeast take a long time to die off. The best beer I ever made was an Oatmeal Stout left on the yeast in primary for nearly 2 months. I only secondary if I dry hop, or if I were to age for more than a month or two...maybe on oak or fruit.

When I rack to a bottling bucket, at the end I just dip the cane into the yeast cake quickly. As long as a little yeast are present, the will wake up upon finding themselves in a sugar environment.

Like everything in life, there are a few exceptions to this were a bottling yeast might be used, but unless you are making HUGE beers, I doubt that's a concern.

 

[unionrdr]

Usually,only initial fermentation is done in that amount of time. Fermentation then slows down with little or no bubbling at all while it ferments down to FG. Then settle out clear or slightly misty.

 

[mikesmith1611]

Yeah may be a little sweet but still tastes good and is no where near ready! As said before im from the uk and will be brewing english style ales which generally are not big so i think a week minimum in primary will be fine for next time. Cant beleive how addicted i am to brewing it got me hook line and sinker and im only on my third batch!

 

[40watt]

I'm about to brew almost exclusively AG English Ales for a while. If I decide to rush it along, it might have some diacytl, but that would be to style since I've often heard the English brewers tend to rush them along to get them in kegs. For me two weeks is rushing, so I shouldn't have any problems.

 

[mikesmith1611]

Yeah its strange cos theres so much different info out there on home brewing and online its mostly from.the states. I have also heard that english ales have a quick turn around usually 2 weeks and into the barrel whereas in the states most people leave it 4 weeks. In the UK real ale is found everywhere and ive grown to the taste of the ales here. I guess its down to taste and what suits you, but as im new to it all i got a lot of questions. What is diactyl?

 

[40watt]

Yeah its strange cos theres so much different info out there on home brewing and online its mostly from.the states. I have also heard that english ales have a quick turn around usually 2 weeks and into the barrel whereas in the states most people leave it 4 weeks. In the UK real ale is found everywhere and ive grown to the taste of the ales here. I guess its down to taste and what suits you, but as im new to it all i got a lot of questions. What is diactyl?

It's only a concern with All Grain. Some yeast produce more diacetyl than others. They all will clean it up on their own, but the English strains take a little more time than some others. This part of the cleanup that the yeast are able to perform if you leave beer in primary for a time after fermentation end.

Diacetyl is typically described as a buttery flavor.