Quick PM and AG question...I'm brewing this morning

[drives_a_bike]

I've been concocting my own recipes and they've been partial mashes for over a year now.
I had read somewhere, you want 1 quart of water per pound of grain. I have never gone by that. No matter the amount of grain, I've always just mashed with three gallons of water and then sparged with 2.5 more gallons so I'd have a final total of 5.5 gallons and then I was off to boil. I've never had any issue as far as I can tell. I just wonder if I'm getting lucky, and could eventually wind up with a bad batch or if it's no big deal.

Also, I just got stuff for my first AG beer...a hop bursted APA. I've read again now, (and this is what got me thinking of my previous question) that you want to gather 1.3 quarts per gallon. Again, is this absolutely necessary? Or is my normal way just fine?

Thanks homies

 

[Yooper]

Mashing is defined by using a prescribed amount of water at a prescribed temperature for a prescribed length of time.

There are lots of variables here, and it could 'work' even without following those guidelines- but there are reasons for them!

The most important reason to have a certain amount of liquid in the mash is so that conversion happens. That is, holding the proper pH and temperature long enough for the enzymes to convert starch to sugar. That's the whole point of mashing, after all.

Three gallons may or may not be optimum, depending on your grainbill size. Doing a full volume mash may or may not be optimum, again, depending on the grainbill size and mash pH.

One of the reasons many do a 1.5 quarts/pound type of mash is to have enough sparging liquid left to help maximize efficiency, but even sparging isn't required for all-grain beers- lots of people mash with their full volume of liquid and don't sparge at all.

There are alot of ways to go about this, and your way may be perfectly fine- as long as you have conversion in the mash.

 

[ss4ivan]

Yooper summed it up very nicely

From Palmer's How to Brew:

"The grist/water ratio is another factor influencing the performance of the mash. A thinner mash of >2 quarts of water per pound of grain dilutes the relative concentration of the enzymes, slowing the conversion, but ultimately leads to a more fermentable mash because the enzymes are not inhibited by a high concentration of sugars. A stiff mash of <1.25 quarts of water per pound is better for protein breakdown, and results in a faster overall starch conversion, but the resultant sugars are less fermentable and will result in a sweeter, maltier beer. A thicker mash is more gentle to the enzymes because of the lower heat capacity of grain compared to water. A thick mash is better for multirest mashes because the enzymes are not denatured as quickly by a rise in temperature."

 

[drives_a_bike]

So according to palmers comments, 2+ quarts per gallon is cool as long as I have a longer mash. Say I mash for 90 minutes, it should be good and result in a more fermentable wort?

 

[dkevinb]

So according to palmers comments, 2+ quarts per gallon is cool as long as I have a longer mash. Say I mash for 90 minutes, it should be good and result in a more fermentable wort?

As Yooper says, there's an almost unlimited number of ways to skin the homebrewing cat. I do BIAB, but my biggest kettle is only 8 gallons. I mash with 6.5 gallons of water and typically between 8-12 pounds of grain for 1 hour. I then dunk sparge/mash out in a separate pot with 2 gallons of water for 10 minutes. I add that back to my main kettle to get a 7 gallon pre-boil volume. Either way I'm way too thin or way too thick according to the "common mash wisdom", but I'm still getting 75-80% efficiency and I like my beer just fine. I will add that I stir my mash every 20 minutes, plus once or twice during the mash out. At the end of the day if you like your beer you're doing it right.

 

[drives_a_bike]

That's what I was just saying to the missus dkevinb. Every beer I've done since I've started this process has turned out great! At the end of the day, I like my beer just fine...I only asked because I've run across a few threads lately while doing some research that all go by this 1, 1.3, 1.5 quarts per gallon rule and my beer I'm about to start includes A LOT of expensive hops and I'd hate to screw something up.
I'll do it my normal way and post some updates as I go

 

[Horseshoot]

You could have boiled longer. Get the wort to a reasonable pre boil gravity, and then conduct a normal boil from there (adjusting hops to fit the volumes.). You would end up with a lot less beer, but you would have reasonable alcohol levels. Just a thought.

 

[Horseshoot]

Whoa! Wrong thread. Disregard that comment. My iPhone had a brain fart!

 

[KeninMN]

My understanding is that thinner mashes have less pH buffering capacity than thicker mashes, so a thicker mash is more resistant to pH changes. Having a good pH meter and chemicals on hand to adjust pH is your best insurance against something going wrong; therefore, I base my mash thickness on what it will take to eliminate all of the head space in my round, 5 gallon drink cooler mash tun. This enables me to hold to within =/- 1 degree F over 60 minutes. So depending on the grain bill that can vary from 1.25 qt/lb to over 2 qt/lb. I've noted that I have higher efficiency with thinner mashes.

 

[drives_a_bike]

Whoa! Wrong thread. Disregard that comment. My iPhone had a brain fart!

Haha...I was like, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[brewkinger]

No matter the amount of grain, I've always just mashed with three gallons of water and then sparged with 2.5 more gallons so I'd have a final total of 5.5 gallons and then I was off to boil. I've never had any issue as far as I can tell.
Thanks homies

I read through the posts and see that your questions have been well answered, but I have to ask a question on your original post.

There is something wrong with your current process:
If you mix grain with 3 gallons of water for the mash and then rinse/sparge with 2.5 gallons, how can you still end up with 5.5 gallons at the boil?
Where is your loss to grain absorption?

 

[Yooper]

That's what I was just saying to the missus dkevinb. Every beer I've done since I've started this process has turned out great! At the end of the day, I like my beer just fine...I only asked because I've run across a few threads lately while doing some research that all go by this 1, 1.3, 1.5 quarts per gallon rule and my beer I'm about to start includes A LOT of expensive hops and I'd hate to screw something up.
I'll do it my normal way and post some updates as I go

If you don't have a way to check mash pH with a pH meter, or colorphast strips, I wouldn't be so quick to disregard the usual mash of 1.25-2 quarts of water per pound of grain.

The single most common issues for off-flavors in beer beside oxidation is a too-high mash pH. If you're using reverse osmosis water or distilled water, it may not be too bad (although it will still be too high unless you use some acid malt or acid in the mash) but if you're using tap water with high alkalinity, the more water you use in the mash, the higher the mash pH will be and the greater chance for poor flavor, especially in lighter colored beers.

 

[KeninMN]

Unless you are directly and accurately measuring pH you're only guessing. (And all of the authorities on the subject I've come across agree that you can't accurately and repeatably measure wort pH with color changing strips.) If you're only guessing you have no way to know what went wrong when things eventually go wrong...

 

[Horseshoot]

Sorry about that drives_a_bike!

 

[drives_a_bike]

I read through the posts and see that your questions have been well answered, but I have to ask a question on your original post.

There is something wrong with your current process:
If you mix grain with 3 gallons of water for the mash and then rinse/sparge with 2.5 gallons, how can you still end up with 5.5 gallons at the boil?
Where is your loss to grain absorption?

Right, sorry. I sparge with 3 gallons as well. I also rinse the LME jug and shake the hell out of it to get every last drop of LME out, so there's a bit more water there. I rarely end up having to top off...today I did, but not usually.

I don't check ph or anything ever...I guess; to me and all my friends who drink my beer, we've never had an issue with off favors. I don't have city water at my house. A combination of counties I live near way back in the day offered a substitute to the God awful city water our city offers, and my whole street opted for it, so we have amazing water that is cleaner and uses less chemicals. It's not distilled or reverse osmosis, but I don't really care.