Questions about March Pumps answered by the Factory!

[insanim8er]

You do have the 815 pump.....those are older stickers we used so they are still out there labeled like that.....no worries
The stainless head for the 809/815 are all the same...just call any distributor and ask for part# 0809-0150-0000
you can re-use all the old parts from the pump you have other then the o-ring...they are different between the plastic and metal housings....thats part# 0809-0165-1000

hope that helps

perfect, thanks

 

[30Bones]

Did not find this searching this thread.

Just bought 2 new March 815PL pumps off this site.

I read conflicting information on MPT or NPT threads. Either way Austin HB states

The March Pump also requires two 1/2" NPT couplings. One is for the "in" connection, and one is for the "out" connection. To avoid damaging the pump head, the use of polypropylene couplings is recommended because threading metal fittings onto the pump head can damage the pump's threads. See the options below.

How many do this? I figured once I mount a valve on the output and whatever quick release coupling on the input the chances of me taking them off again would be slim?? Kinda screws me into buying more fittings. $20 in these adapters, then a 1/2' female spud to get a valve back on there. It's only $$ right?

 

[mattd2]

Did not find this searching this thread.

Just bought 2 new March 815PL pumps off this site.

I read conflicting information on MPT or NPT threads. Either way Austin HB states

How many do this? I figured once I mount a valve on the output and whatever quick release coupling on the input the chances of me taking them off again would be slim?? Kinda screws me into buying more fittings. $20 in these adapters, then a 1/2' female spud to get a valve back on there. It's only $$ right?

I wouldn't bother, just make sure to not cross thread the plastic threads with the SS fittings otherwise you will "cut" an new thread into it and that will be a female dog!
Plus even if you do you can get a replacement head for only $25 - http://www.tescopumps.com/servlet/the-223/809-PL-Kit-|/Detail

By the way MPT = Male NPT

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

They are only recommending the adapters so your not screwing a metal fitting onto plastic..Many people tend to over tighten the fittings or not start the threads properly and cross thread them.....as long as you take your time....put a few wraps of Teflon tape on the threads....turn the fitting your installing backwards on the threads till you feel it "click or fall down" on the starting thread and then tighten it up hand tight (no need to crank it down like the hulk) you will be fine.

 

[30Bones]

They are only recommending the adapters so your not screwing a metal fitting onto plastic..Many people tend to over tighten the fittings or not start the threads properly and cross thread them.....as long as you take your time....put a few wraps of Teflon tape on the threads....turn the fitting your installing backwards on the threads till you feel it "click or fall down" on the starting thread and then tighten it up hand tight (no need to crank it down like the hulk) you will be fine.

Thanks, That was my plan and glad to get some positive feedback. Excited to use all these new gadgets after years of extract, and not even a year of AG under my belt and I am diving head first into this

 

[MaltyHops]

Hi Guys,

Have been having a discussion with Walter on pump enclosures that I thought might be handy for other 809 owners to know.

Here's my pump doghouse , btw.

Cheers,
Tom.

We do make them in both versions (sleeve and ball bearing) most of the slow speed motors are sleeve and the "HS" or high speed models are the ball bearing...but thats not to say they cant be sleeve as it depends on where the motors are made sometimes....
But they all do have the thermal overload built in so no need to worry about the motors overheating

Thank you, Walter.

This is interesting ... in my original 809 enclosure, I put a glass spirit thermometer next to the motor body and I was reading temperatures around 75C(167F)-80C(176F) when I was recirculating hot wort without any thermal shutoff. Perhaps I was not measuring the motor surface temperature properly.

In any case, I didn't like the fact the 809 motor seemed to be getting that hot so decided to not use the pump much until I've done something like a new, more open enclosure.

Do you know if there are 809 models both with and without sleeve bearings? Mine does but I can imagine brewers on our forum may have 809 pumps of varying ages so that some might not have sleeve bearing - in which case, can they rrun their 809s in a similar manner until thermal cutoff?

Anyways, thanks again Walter.

Cheers,
Tom.

According to our motor vendor the motors have an internal thermal overload of around 205* internal temp....that usually translates to about 150*F on the surface of the motor....they say as long as the motor is not tripping the thermal overload when operating, you can run it hot like that as long as you like. They do recommend oiling the sleeve bearing (if you have that version) twice a year if its run like that....just an fyi...

 

[mtbiker278]

I got a new March 815 for the holiday. I have a couple questions about using it. Typically when brewing don't bother keeping anything out of the fermenter. Anything that goes into the boil kettle ends up in the fermenter. Are there any concerns with pumping wort that contains pellet hops, pumpkin, or spices (orange peel/coriander)? Obviously want to avoid whole hops and plugs, but I only use those for dryhopping.

How necessary is it to have an enclosure for the pump?

What about wiring in a switch to turn the pump off/on? Right now I'm using a power/strip, but I'm not sure it's meant to be used as such.

Thanks for the help!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I got a new March 815 for the holiday. I have a couple questions about using it. Typically when brewing don't bother keeping anything out of the fermenter. Anything that goes into the boil kettle ends up in the fermenter. Are there any concerns with pumping wort that contains pellet hops, pumpkin, or spices (orange peel/coriander)? Obviously want to avoid whole hops and plugs, but I only use those for dryhopping.

Most times particles going through the pump will just pass right through...but if you get one big enough or a big bunch of them at the same time going through and binding up the impeller you can decouple the pump.....then your stuck taking the pump apart too clean it all out.

How necessary is it to have an enclosure for the pump?

That depends on how messy you are....if you dont spill anything then its not necessary.

What about wiring in a switch to turn the pump off/on? Right now I'm using a power/strip, but I'm not sure it's meant to be used as such.

A power switch is just personal preference, not 100% required but its more convenient

Thanks for the help!

 

[mtbiker278]

Thanks for the info! I'm looking forward to not having to lift 10+ gallons of water in a cooler anymore. Using it to vorlauf and recirculate for chilling is just a plus.

I tried looking up on the website, but didn't find any info regarding the max current draw. I assume it's less than 15A, but just wanted to double check. Thinking about getting a foot activated switch and wanted to make sure it'll be rated for the current draw.

Thanks again!

 

[mtbiker278]

Scratch that, just found it in the manual....who would look there.....

1.4A at 115v is the draw just in case anyone else wanted to know.

 

[dunnry]

I have a March 815. It was originally bought with the plastic (polypropylene) inline head. On 1 or 2 occasions it cavitated and made the horrible screeching sound for 1 or 2 secs before I shut it down. This is for history in case it impacts what is currently happening. Cavitation did not happen a lot - only a few times until I got the hang of priming it.

Now, I purchased a Chugger stainless in-line head and replaced the plastic head. Now I have a Chugger/March pump. That was about a year ago. In that time, I have never heard it cavitate until recently. It is now showing the following issues:

1. The pump now cavitates on SHUT DOWN. That is, it makes that horrible noise as I turn it off - so, it means the pump, which is clearly pumping liquid out is somehow able to cavitate as I turn it off. How is this possible?

2. The pump sometimes no longer 'engages' when I turn it on. That is, nothing comes out of the pump. If I turn it on/off a few times, it suddenly engages and pumps just fine (until I turn it off, then see #1).

Is this an issue with the March body or the Chugger head? How is the cavitation possible on shutdown? And finally, why does the pump not engage sometimes?

Thanks!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

dunnry, well....i have been reprimanded for speaking about "the other guys" pumps on the forum so for now any issues with their stuff you would need to ask them about it.

But, what i can tell you is for the engaging issue, "they" may have a different number of magnetic poles on the impeller magnets and are not fully lining up with our drive magnet....either that or if you took the drive magnet off the shaft of the motor at any time, you may not have it set correctly and the magnetic strength is not 100% there. On our pumps if you take the pump head off the motor bracket, the drive magnet should be spaced 1/16" below the face of the motor bracket.

If it was our pump i would also suggest you take the unit apart and verify the Teflon thrust washer is still on the shaft and keeping the impeller from rubbing up against the pump housing and that the impeller spins nice a freely on the shaft

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

one last thing....are you pumping at near boiling temps?
you may be pulling air off the bottom of the kettle and into the pump....thus the cavitation type results when in fact its not cavitating due to any plumbing/restriction issue.

 

[dunnry]

one last thing....are you pumping at near boiling temps?
you may be pulling air off the bottom of the kettle and into the pump....thus the cavitation type results when in fact its not cavitating due to any plumbing/restriction issue.

Thanks for your input. I will investigate a couple options. As for temp - this pump is used to recirculate water in the HLT (I have electric HERMS setup). So, the max temp here is around 168F for mashout. The water is in no way boiling if that is what you mean.

 

[dunnry]

dunnry, well....i have been reprimanded for speaking about "the other guys" pumps on the forum so for now any issues with their stuff you would need to ask them about it.

But, what i can tell you is for the engaging issue, "they" may have a different number of magnetic poles on the impeller magnets and are not fully lining up with our drive magnet....either that or if you took the drive magnet off the shaft of the motor at any time, you may not have it set correctly and the magnetic strength is not 100% there. On our pumps if you take the pump head off the motor bracket, the drive magnet should be spaced 1/16" below the face of the motor bracket.

If it was our pump i would also suggest you take the unit apart and verify the Teflon thrust washer is still on the shaft and keeping the impeller from rubbing up against the pump housing and that the impeller spins nice a freely on the shaft

Totally understand - thank you very much for your insight here, it really helps!

My understanding of how the March pump heads work (assuming I put the original March head back on) is that cavitation damage can only occur in the head - never in the body. So, even if my original head was damaged slightly in cavitations, any replacement head would not be impacted (i.e. the body is not damaged during cavitation). Is this correct?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

it depends on the severity of the cavitation...but most times its limited to the impeller itself....but i have seen it damage the pump head itself too...but its rare. most times the impeller gets seized onto the shaft from lack of lubrication....and most times you can just drill it out with a 17/64" drill bit and be back on your way

 

[dunnry]

Checked the impeller - it seems to spin just fine. I will try to figure out the engaging issue a bit more with magnet line up.

As for the cavitation - this washer looks damaged, right?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

i see no pic...

 

[dunnry]

Image fixed (kinda). Seems awfully big - need to resize that.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

honestly i don't know what that is....we don't have anything like that on the back side of the impeller housing at all. Here's what our thrust washers look like (see below) and its between the front housing and the impeller. Its that white ring sitting on the impeller shaft

 

[ziggy13]

Walter, we are having trouble understanding why when mounting the pump vertically, the motor needs to be on the bottom with the head on top? We have one mounted this way and another mounted with the motor on top and both are priming and seeming to work properly. I am certainly not implying you're wrong, just looking for more explanation. Could you further clarify how or why air could get trapped if the motor is on top? If it's working fine for us with the motor on top, is it okay to continue to use it that way or is this causing some kind of damage we can't see? We read your tutorial, which was awesome by the way, and everything makes sense except this part about mounting the pumps vertically.

 

[insanim8er]

Used my 809hs for the first time... How did I brew with out it? Wow what a difference.

Now I need to order the fittings for my 815 center to get that added into the mix.

Brewing just got WAY more enjoyable!

Could you further clarify how or why air could get trapped if the motor is on top?

Because air travels up. Mounting the motor up means air can easily gets stuck in the pocket where the propeller is. Mounting it the other way means the air rises above the propeller.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Ziggy, check out this thread on pump orientation:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/short-pump-orientation-mounting-tutorial-306814/

hope that explains it for you

 

[ziggy13]

Thanks guys, I guess what's really confusing me is that if you mount the head above the motor, the outlet port is then below the inlet. Isn't that opposite the way it's supposed to be?

 

[ziggy13]

The way the pump head is laying in this photo...if the motor were attached to it, the motor would be on top and the head on the bottom, right? Where is the air getting trapped at in this photo? Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, I just can't wrap my thick skull around this concept...

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

you can see in the picture the stainless rear cover that's been cut and you can see how the back end of the impeller (the silver part) fits inside it....draw a straight line across the bottom of where the silver meets the black on the impeller and that's where the air will get trapped. For short operations you probably wont damage anything back there but the pump is basically running dry. And it can cause cavitation issues...

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Thanks guys, I guess what's really confusing me is that if you mount the head above the motor, the outlet port is then below the inlet. Isn't that opposite the way it's supposed to be?

Technically that's correct...but you have to keep in mind that air always wants to find its highest point...so when you start the pump up and you have air in the lines the pump has a better chance of expelling it out...and if you did have air in the lines it easier to get it out like this because you can cycle the power on/off in a few short bursts...never letting the pump get to full speed and it will usually pass all the air out of itself.

 

[ziggy13]

Thanks Walter! Great customer service right here!

 

[Bsquared]

Hi Walter,

I was in a class the other night that was taught by one of the guys from coastal automation, who built the new stone brewery. We were discussing variable frequency drives, and I asked if it was correct that VFD's are only available to run three phase motors, and he said that there are some new units that can control some single phase motors, depending on how the the motor is wound. I've done some searching but have only found freq drives that can have a single phase input, but where three phase output.

Do you know of any VFD'd that can control a single phase motor, more specifically that can control a march 808 or other march pump that us homebrewers typically use?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I don't personally know of any...i have heard rumors from customers about that.....only kind of "VFD" i know that can work on a single phase motor would be a PWM or pulse width modulation....basically it switches full power on/off to vary the speed...its like sitting there flicking a light switch on/off as you watch the flow rate coming out of the pump....