Questions about March Pumps answered by the Factory!

[clearwaterbrewer]

Walter is right, these are great pumps at high temps in a closed system. If you are trying to pump any liquid near its boiling point in an open system like brewing, however, your plumbing needs to be proper. Are you having problems only when the kettle is being heated and at 190? It is likely that spot boiling is causing small bubbles to be sucked into the inlet of the pump, which is at a partial vacuum.. Ideally, you would place your pump well below the bottom of your kettle and have the plumbing have no points that can form an air trap... (even a dip tube can hold air that causes pump problems, but the real culprit is usually a flexible line that goes up and down a little bit over other lines, cords, between brackets, etc... this is just a nightmare on the suction side of the pump) I have had good luck in having the plumbing go straight down, make a single U-band back up, and there is where I place the pump, with flow going vertically up, so if it gets an air bubble in it, it is very self-clearing... for the first year we used centrifugal pumps in homebrew, we cursed them... then we plumbed right, got our pump-chi, and have been going good for 10 years...

 

[malador]

Walter,

Could you please let me know the shaft diameter, bolt mounting pattern, and Max RPM of the AC-5B-MD pump?

I've found the "wet end" of that pump for sale online, and I'd like to fit it to a 3 phase motor.

thanks!

 

[Brew-boy]

Walter welcome to HBT. I have one of your pumps and I love it.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Walter,

Could you please let me know the shaft diameter, bolt mounting pattern, and Max RPM of the AC-5B-MD pump?

I've found the "wet end" of that pump for sale online, and I'd like to fit it to a 3 phase motor.

thanks!

Shaft is 3/8" with a 9/16" flat for setscrew

bolt pattern on our motor actually uses a 10-32 stud on a 3.87/3.91" bolt circle set 90* appart sitting straight up but as long as you can get the holes on it close size wise you can get it to work

and RPM at no-load speed is 3450.....when running its around 3200

 

[malador]

Shaft is 3/8" with a 9/16" flat for setscrew

bolt pattern on our motor actually uses a 10-32 stud on a 3.87/3.91" bolt circle set 90* appart sitting straight up but as long as you can get the holes on it close size wise you can get it to work

and RPM at no-load speed is 3450.....when running its around 3200

Awesome, I can make that work. One more question if you don't mind. What is the smallest 3 phase pump you make suitable for beer making? I want to order my pumps today, and just wanted to compare prices.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Smallest 3 phase suitable for beer making? The smallest pump that starts in 3 phase would be our series 5.5 Unfortunatly we dont make that one in the polysulfone plastic....only Polypropylene and Kynar plastic....but you can get it in Stainless (TE-5.5S-MD)

And looking back....i didnt dawn on me till writing this that we do make the series 5 in a more industrial versions (The TE-5) they come with a 42 frame motor (Still not 3 phase though)...just make sure the motor you find has the same shaft dimentions as above....and the motor shaft 1" long from the mounting face to the end of the shaft....most off the shelf are longer....just take a hack saw and lop it off shorter

 

[Deric]

Walter,

Any idea where the best place to get a few thrust washers is? I have 2 815 pumps and I noticed the last time I opened one up the thrust washer was very worn. Would like to get a couple to have on hand.

Thanks!

 

[mattd2]

Awesome, I can make that work. One more question if you don't mind. What is the smallest 3 phase pump you make suitable for beer making? I want to order my pumps today, and just wanted to compare prices.

Sorry to butt in here but is there any reason why it has to be 3 phase? As long as the pump can do what you want it to you should be able to drop a single hot leg to run single phase equipment , no? I would imagine that you would not need to go to single phase untill you were much bigger than the realm of a micro brewery, say 50 hL (just a guess )

 

[cscade]

Deric, The best place I have found to buy them is at William's Brewing - thrust washer

I keep a few on hand.

 

[LordUlrich]

Sorry to butt in here but is there any reason why it has to be 3 phase? As long as the pump can do what you want it to you should be able to drop a single hot leg to run single phase equipment , no? I would imagine that you would not need to go to single phase untill you were much bigger than the realm of a micro brewery, say 50 hL (just a guess )

While a single phase pump would work, in a bigger or any professional brewery I would go for as big of a pump as possible. When you need to make money off brewing time is important. On the 10bbl system at my old job transfer took a little over a hour and a half for each transfer. For every batch that is 4.5 hours just pumping beer. It adds up quick.

 

[malador]

Sorry to butt in here but is there any reason why it has to be 3 phase? As long as the pump can do what you want it to you should be able to drop a single hot leg to run single phase equipment , no? I would imagine that you would not need to go to single phase untill you were much bigger than the realm of a micro brewery, say 50 hL (just a guess )

There really is no great reason for it to be three phase. But then there is not a great reason have pumps for home brewing. I like three phase motors, they are quiet, easy to adjust speed, have no centrifugal switches, and they are what i work with the most. I know the benefits wont out weight the cost, but i don't care.

 

[mattd2]

While a single phase pump would work, in a bigger or any professional brewery I would go for as big of a pump as possible. When you need to make money off brewing time is important. On the 10bbl system at my old job transfer took a little over a hour and a half for each transfer. For every batch that is 4.5 hours just pumping beer. It adds up quick.

That's 3.5 GPM? What pump where you running? A March AC-5SSB-MD will pump out 8 GPM on the middle of its pump curve. I don't think the issue at that brewery was a single phase pump.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

The people that get into 3 PHase motors are usually eyeing a VFD (Variable frquency drive) to be installed on the motor so they can adjust the RPM's of the motor and the output of the pump on the fly....no valves to monkey with just turn a dial to set value and go

 

[malador]

The people that get into 3 PHase motors are usually eyeing a VFD (Variable frquency drive) to be installed on the motor so they can adjust the RPM's of the motor and the output of the pump on the fly....no valves to monkey with just turn a dial to set value and go

Walter's right, that's exactly what I plan to do. I have a couple of extra VFD's sitting the garage, and this seems like a fun use for them.

I'm like a kid at Xmass hoping walter writes me back letting me know if i listed the parts I need.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

should have gotten my reply to your x-mas list already

 

[mrjofus1959]

Hello Walter - Can you tell me what wire gauge you're using for the power cords on the 815 pump? Also how hard would it be to break down the motor housing to install a new power cord, versus splicing on to the original cord to get the length I need for my setup?

Thanks, Kevin

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Hello Walter - Can you tell me what wire gauge you're using for the power cords on the 815 pump? Also how hard would it be to break down the motor housing to install a new power cord, versus splicing on to the original cord to get the length I need for my setup?

Thanks, Kevin

Breaking down the motor to change the cord is about impossible for most people. If you were to pop the back cover off the motor you would see the lamination stacks inside....there are two dimples on the outside of the motor that hold that stack in plac....you would need to pop them out to be able just to remove that stack....then you will see the cord is crimped to the main coil wires....must people dont have any type of crimper to spice it the right way...and i'm not sure how well solder would work here.....then if you were actually able to get to this point you would need to insert the stack back into the housing and stake it again without distorting the assembly! Most people that call and ask about this i advise against trying it. Just extend the cord you have now and install a nice braided sleeve over the cord to hide the splice.
The wire gauge is 18

 

[mrjofus1959]

Thanks Walter - splicing it shall be!

 

[Wahoo]

Walter,
Attempting to do a toolbox install of my 815. I read what you said around Page 30 of this thread about offsetting the magnet on the shaft. When I take off the motor bracket, I can't seem to take the magnet off the shaft. It looks like there is a place for a set screw, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't look like there is a set screw there! Despite this, I can't seem to slide or remove the magnet. See pic....

- What is going on that doesn't allow me to slide or remove the magnet?
- Does this even in fact have to be done? The toolbox is relatively thin (~1/32"?) and in most of the blogs and articles I've seen about this type of setup, offsetting the magnet isn't mentioned.

Much thanks!!!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Most times its hard to make out but the set screw takes a 1/8" allen key to break it free....once the set screw is loose it "should" come off...if its stubborn then take two flat head screw drivers and put the tips under the collar of the magnet up against the shaft and pry it off.....but do it with two screw drivers so you put equal pressure on it as its coming off. 1/32" shouldnt bother the drive magnet....worse case if you have decoupling issues you may need to take it apart later and re-set the magnet on the shaft.

 

[Wahoo]

Makes sense, thanks for the quick response!

 

[Lab_Rat]

Walter: First, thank you for doing this. I am not sure if this has been asked before in this monster of a thread. I am planning on setting up a whirlpool in my kettle and use a march pump to recirculate my wort. Some people use a restricted (smaller O.D) outlet back into the kettle to increase the velocity of the pumped wort (like you would with a garden hose). However, from the description of the magnetic drive and how it acts as a clutch, is this even possible? If I restrict my outflow will my velocity increase or will the magnetic drive "slip" to reduce to reduce motor strain and thus keep the velocity the same?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

On a mag-drive you only want to restrict the outlet...never the inlet. Its a common misconception that the mag-drive acts like a clutch...it does and it doesnt......it wont "slip" in the sense that it will allow the impeller to move at a slower speed then the rpm of the motor....the rpm of the motor and the impeller are always at the same speed...but it can "break loose" like when you disengauge the cluch on your can and it allows the motor to free-wheel if the load on the mag-drive is too great. The thing is, it will not re-engauge untill you stop the motor and let the magnets re-align again to re-start.

When you restrict the outlet of the pump you slow the velocity of the liquid down going in/out of the pump...but you increase pressure and thus increase the velocity leaving the discharge point.

So if that confused you the simple answer is you can restrict the outlet side of the pump to get some more pressure. It wont slip.

 

[Lab_Rat]

That answered my question perfectly. Is the pressure at which the pump is rated to (give or take) also the point at which the magnetic drive disengages?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

No. The point at which the mag-drive slips is dependent on the torque of the magnets. In the case of the 809-HS models the magnets have a torque rating of 16 in/oz. So when you exceed that torque rating with enough stress on the impeller with some sort of resistance it will slip and de-couple.
The pressure at which they are rated to is for total system pressure...so if you were running these on a closed system that was pressurized....that's the max pressure the pump head can withstand.

 

[ekjohns]

Walter,
Attempting to do a toolbox install of my 815. I read what you said around Page 30 of this thread about offsetting the magnet on the shaft. When I take off the motor bracket, I can't seem to take the magnet off the shaft. It looks like there is a place for a set screw, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't look like there is a set screw there! Despite this, I can't seem to slide or remove the magnet. See pic....

- What is going on that doesn't allow me to slide or remove the magnet?
- Does this even in fact have to be done? The toolbox is relatively thin (~1/32"?) and in most of the blogs and articles I've seen about this type of setup, offsetting the magnet isn't mentioned.

Much thanks!!!

My tool box was 1/16 and I didnt move my magnet and it works perfect

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Cool!

 

[Irrenarzt]

Hi Walter. Can you suggest a March pump suitable for a CIP application? I'm going to be installing a new fermentation fridge for my old Blichmann conical that I hardly use since it doesn't have a good place to control temps. I'll be installing a CIP spray ball in the lid and the suggested pressure needed will be between 40-60 psi.

I was thinking I'll need a bit more than an 815 but I'd love to hear your thoughts for the correct pump for my application. I already have two 815's for my brewrig so it could be possible to use one of these but I would prefer to have a dedicated pump for a cart that I built for this as well as having a bigger standalone pump for a future expansion (i.e. if we move into a 3.5 bbl brewhouse/brewpub sort of deal). Thanks in advance.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Yeah, i went through this with another member that was trying something like this....unfortunately our pumps don't really make big pressure. First pump i have that can actually make 40psi would be our 8 series....its a 3hp 3 phase unit and can flow 125 gallons per minute....so it would be a BIT overkill for this!! LOL What you would need is some sort of positive displacement pump to make those pressure levels. Like a gear drive or peristaltic or diaphragm.

The other member was going to make a carboy cleaner...or was it a keg cleaner....don't remember. But anyway he was going to try and use an AC-5C-MD and place the outlet of the pipe as close tot he bottom of the vessel as possible to help distribute the fluids all over the bottom of it. But again i don't think there was enough pressure for him so i don't know what ever happened to his idea.

 

[uberg33k]

Walter,

Any chance there will ever be a SS tri clamp head for the 809/815? I thought you guys used to have one, but it seems to have vanished. Who can I bribe or beg to make it happen?

Thanks.