Question on Batch sparge

[mduff001]

Tomorrow I will try my hand at all grain brewing after 8 extract batches :rockin: According to Beer-smith these are the steps I should follow for the Mash:

Mash In Add 13.93 qt of water at 167.5 F 156.0 F 45 min

Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.73gal, 2.95gal) of 168.0 F water


however I am a bit confused by the Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.73gal, 2.95gal) of 168.0 F water Does that mean I should add in 0.73 Gal then drain it and add in 2.95 gl? Why would I just not add 3.68 Gallons at once?

Also I though I should do the Mash in for an hour yet it is saying 45 mins

In case it's needed here is the recipe:
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Belgian - (Dingemans Pale 3.2L) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 66.7 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt - (Durst Vienna 3.8L) (4.0 SRM) Grain 2 19.0 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine - (Breiss Carapils 1.5L) (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.5 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (Breiss) (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.8 %
0.75 oz Cascade [5.70 %] - Boil 55.0 min Hop 5 16.1 IBUs
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [7.10 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 6 1.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg US-05 (Safale #) Yeast 7 -


Any advice ?

thanks in advance

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, that's BeerSmith for ya! Makes no sense to sparge with 3 quarts.

There is a checkbox in BeerSmith to sparge with EQUAL volumes. That will fix it.
Or ignore BS here, and sparge twice with 1.8 gallons each.

After you collect your first runnings, it is a good idea to measure its volume and gravity.
Then your total Sparge volume = Needed Pre-boil volume - First runnings volume.

The gravity tells you how well that mash performed. It should be much higher than your pre-boil gravity.

I use the mash calculator at Brew365.com, and ignore BS there.

Hints:
Preheat your mash tun, and make sure your strike water is 4-6°F higher than calculated. You lose quite a bit of heat during the 4-5 minutes while stirring the grains in, and no calculator accounts for that...

Mash in at 1.33-1.5 quarts per pound (for starters, you could go thinner later if you want)
Add grains to water, it prevents a lot of dough balls from forming.

Have a good brew tomorrow!

Added:
To get much more flavor from that last hop addition, consider doing a 30 min. hopstand:
After you turn the flame off, chill it down to around 170-180°F. Let it "stand" and stir every few minutes for 30 minutes. Then chill down to pitching temps.

 

[blizz81]

So at 3.48gal - absorption (let's say 10.5lbs grain * .11 = 1.15gal), your first runnings will be around 2.33gal minus any deadspace in your mash tun.

I think the prevailing theory for maximum efficiency is for your sparge runnings to be around the volume of your first runnings. If your preboil volume had you using a total of 4.66gal of sparge water, I'd maybe split it into two infusions of 2.33gal each.

It looks like you're trying to get somewhere around 6 gallons collected (? - 2.33gal + 3.68gal = 6.01gal) preboil...I dunno, for me, I'd probably just do the 3.68gal at once on that. There's information on here / graphs that show a study as far as # of infusions and volume, and I think it's pretty negligible. Maybe for your first time just go with the one and see what kind of efficiency you get.

 

[IslandLizard]

Batch sparging is most efficient when using 2 equal volumes. Make sure to drain all the way for your first runnings and with each sparge. Using different volumes makes a small difference, but one single large sparge is surely less efficient, although not disastrously large. There is no need to wait more than a couple minutes after you stir the sparge water in. Stirring like it owes you money is more important.

Limiting the deadspace in your mashtun is important. No shame in tilting the thing toward the spigot at the end, if that helps the cause.

Really, take a look at that mash calculator I pointed to, and punch in some numbers. You'll see how it all works.

 

[pvpeacock]

Ignore BS's advice on this. A few thoughts and comments.
1. You do not need to be that precise when it comes to the amount of strike/mash water or sparge water. Approximations are good enough. It is really the pre-boil volume you are trying to control. If you go a little over on the mash volume, just reduce the amount of the batch sparge water.

2. Heat your strike water a few degrees higher than BS tells you to. Then have ice cold water standing by to add to the mash as needed to get your mash temperature perfect. Don't worry that adding cold water has increased your mash volume. Just use less sparge water to adjust your final pre-boil wort volume accordingly.

3. When you batch sparge, add the water and stir, stir, stir and stir some more. Once you are done stirring, there is no need to let it sit. Just Vorleouf and drain. By the way, while sparging at or above the mash temperature is preferable, it really doesn't matter much what the actual temperature of the sparge water is.

4. After your first sparge, figure our how much wort you have collected and how much more you want/need. Add that amount as your second/final sparge volume.

5. Finally, don't overthink it. The mash temperature as opposed to the volume of water is really the most important part of mashing. After mashing, all you are doing by sparging is rinsing more sugar out of your grains and trying to hit your preboil wort volume.

Good luck and relaxxxxxxx!!!!!

 

[Yesfan]

I usually do the 1.5 qrt per pound to keep the math simple, instead of what BS suggests. After I drain the tun of the first runnings, I usually just do a single sparge to get up to my preboil.

 

[Oginme]

You have not personalized the mash profile to reflect your particular process. Open up the mash profile in the recipe (on the mash tab) and start by clicking the box which reads 'drain mash tun before sparging'. This will set the step to drain the mash tun before adding sparge water. Next set the 'batch sparge using batches that fill:' to 100%. This will set the batch sparge to fill up to 100% of the mash tun capacity.

Your mash steps would then read on the brew sheet to mash in using the water you specify, drain the mash tun, then add the sparge water.

 

[kh54s10]

I have set my mash profile in BS for equal amounts. I still ignore what it says. I have a dip stick that tells me the volume in the boil kettle. I drain my wort, measure the amount that I have and sparge with a little more than half of the rest needed. I then do a second sparge with just a little more than I need to get the rest. This leaves very little wort still in the tun. Which, if nothing else makes the tun lighter for carrying to the compost pile.

 

[mduff001]

thanks every one I changed my Profile in BS and will not over complicate it

 

[Singletrack]

Wait a minute, we are not through with you!

BS seems to a lot of good things for many people, but always remember that it works for you. You are the boss, and you tell it how it can help you. Then, when BS is full of BS, you ignore its advice, and do what you want. To do that, you need to understand what you are trying to achieve. That is part of the fun of brewing. Never allow any software to tell you how to brew. You are the boss. Now, brew like a boss!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I prefer to go by temperature, and not volume, when batch sparging, and then do multiple batch sparges so that I'm getting roughly 3 equal draws of runnings (drain mash tun, 1st batch sparge, 2nd batch sparge). I use sparge water that's usually ~185°F, and add to the grain bed slowly while stirring like mad until the grain bed temp reaches 167-168°F (I don't usually do a mashout, so it's coming up from sacch rest temps). I get damned good efficiency this way, but you have to be careful with a 2nd batch sparge with smaller beers, because it's easy to pull it below 2.5°P/above 6 pH and into tannin country.

 

[VegasBrew1]

Hey all. I was taught to use around 1.5 qt per pound. Mash for an hour. Then I add a gallon or 1.5 to the tun of boiling water, stir it and let it sit 10 minutes. I believe the thinking was it would cease the chemical reactions at that point (though you don't want your water above 170F due to tannins). Then heat the rest of the water to around 180-185, so when it mixes with the grains it will be just below 170F. Then throw in the heat sticks and brew. I'm no expert, just my process. Cheers.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Hey all. I was taught to use around 1.5 qt per pound. Mash for an hour. Then I add a gallon or 1.5 to the tun of boiling water, stir it and let it sit 10 minutes. I believe the thinking was it would cease the chemical reactions at that point (though you don't want your water above 170F due to tannins). Then heat the rest of the water to around 180-185, so when it mixes with the grains it will be just below 170F. Then throw in the heat sticks and brew. I'm no expert, just my process. Cheers.

That's called a mashout, and yes, it sets fermentibility. However it's not really necessary with batch sparging since it's faster than fly sparging.

 

[VegasBrew1]

Good info, thanks. I probably will always stick with batch sparging, so that will save me some time. Much appreciated!

 

[hottpeper13]

I use either Beer Palmer or Beer Papazian and have always hit my temps and volumes. Never used a program just a calculator and their formulas.

 

[mduff001]

Ok I did it I brew all grain thanks to your help

Few notes:

I preheated the 10g Cooler
Did a starch test came out clean (thanks youtube )
the pre boil OG was 1.046 with BS saying it should be 1.048
Post Boil OG was at 1.056 vs BS saying 1.055

Now the bad news:
I don't think I measured the water right as I only wound up with 4 gl in the fermenter So I will HAVE to pay more attention next time to that...I know that's what a lot of the posts said and I swore I had 6 GL total from the 1st and 2nd run yet I must have misread and only had 5

I also forgot to recirculate the second running but noticed it after like a Min and gave me a few extra floaters in the wort

Need to chalk this up to learning curve and will not plan on making the same mistakes but probably just new ones

Right now it is fermenting up a storm and hoping all will be well


Ohh well just an excuse the speed up my next brew day as i will have less beer to bottle :cross:

Also found this link that may help people in need with my same questions below

http://onebeer.net/batchspargecalc.shtml

 

[chickypad]

If you do a couple more batches taking good measurements at each step you should be able to get it dialed in pretty quickly. If you don't have a sight glass on your kettle that is accurate I would recommend notching/marking a long spoon or rod to accurately measure kettle volumes. Make sure to measure your boil off and try to hit the same level of rolling boil each time. This all has to be input into Beersmith - IME when it is spitting out bad numbers it's because there was bad info put in. If you don't want a mash out, you need to tell it. If you plan to drain the tun completely and use equal sparges, you need to tell it. As Singletrack said, be the boss!

 

[mduff001]

If you do a couple more batches taking good measurements at each step you should be able to get it dialed in pretty quickly. If you don't have a sight glass on your kettle that is accurate I would recommend notching/marking a long spoon or rod to accurately measure kettle volumes. Make sure to measure your boil off and try to hit the same level of rolling boil each time. This all has to be input into Beersmith - IME when it is spitting out bad numbers it's because there was bad info put in. If you don't want a mash out, you need to tell it. If you plan to drain the tun completely and use equal sparges, you need to tell it. As Singletrack said, be the boss!

thanks what BS seems to be missing is extra water I need for the Mash infusion what setting should I use to add that ?


PS I will meditate I am the Boss of BS I am the boss of BS before my next batch

 

[Puddlethumper]

Now the bad news:
I don't think I measured the water right as I only wound up with 4 gl in the fermenter So I will HAVE to pay more attention next time to that...I know that's what a lot of the posts said and I swore I had 6 GL total from the 1st and 2nd run yet I must have misread and only had 5

You might have gotten your volume right but forgot to allow for boil-off and loss to trub in the boil kettle. I find that with most beers I need to start with 7 gal. of hot wort to get 5.25 gal. cooled wort in the fermenter. I'll then loose another pint to a quart to fermenter loss (yeast/trub) so I end up with 5 gal. in the keg. You are in a more humid climate than I am so you may not lose as much to boil-off. Best to boil a test batch of tap water for an hour, time it and measure the loss. That will help you calculate how much wort you really need to make a 5 gallon batch.

 

[IslandLizard]

You might have gotten your volume right but forgot to allow for boil-off and loss to trub in the boil kettle. I find that with most beers I need to start with 7 gal. of hot wort to get 5.25 gal. cooled wort in the fermenter. I'll then loose another pint to a quart to fermenter loss (yeast/trub) so I end up with 5 gal. in the keg.

Exactly, those are my findings too! 7 gallons pre-boil is very average.
During a one hour boil you typically boil off 1 gallon. So you end up with 6 gallons of wort in the kettle after the boil. Then there is a quart to 1/2 gallon loss to trub left in the kettle and equipment. And another quart to 1/2 gallon is lost during racking, due to trub and yeast, and samples. So you should scale your recipes to 5.75-6 gallon to end up with 5 gallons packaged.

Best to boil a test batch of tap water for an hour, time it and measure the loss. That will help you calculate how much wort you really need to make a 5 gallon batch.

Don't waste heat on boiling tap water to gauge your boil off. Estimate it to be 1 gallon per hour, and correct it up or down to your actual boil-off on your next batch.

Again, BS can be coaxed to give you good numbers on the mash and sparge volumes, but I always have my laptop around when brewing and use Brew365 for ad hoc mash volumes and temps.

 

[chickypad]

thanks what BS seems to be missing is extra water I need for the Mash infusion what setting should I use to add that ?)

If the total water calculation is off then you don't have things set up properly somewhere in your equipment profile or volumes page. Do you know your boil off and did you set that correctly? Do you have mash tun deadspace and if so did you set that?

If the overall volume is correct but you mean you want a thinner mash with less water in the sparge, you set that on the mash page. It defaults to 1.25 qt per lb but you can set any thickness you want.