Question for Revy

[ESROHDE]

It said that in the near future you were going to try an 1880's era historical ale. I was curious about the recipe you will be using. Would it be possible to get a copy? I have a somewhat large collection of old books with old herbal and regular beer, wine, and mead recipes, and I am always looking for more old and historic type recipes. Thank you for all of your info.

 

[Revvy]

I was asleep when you posted this...

I'm still trying to figure that out....I dug up a bunch of sources while I was trying to figure out an old looking portable tap system...To serve after a vintage Base Ball Game

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=65335

Here's some of the links I found......"American Beer - 1908, A series of "Letters to the Editor" sent to the New York Sun newspaper." All about beer and the brewing industry in NY in 1908

http://jesskidden.googlepages.com/19082

Draft Beer in 1903
http://jesskidden.googlepages.com/draftbeerin1903

The Brunswick Pilsners (Pre-prohibition) with recipes
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.1/jankowski.html

Beer in the Late 1800's New York. (This was the most helpful)
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8633&page=3

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do....In the Straightburbon forum this stood out;

However, it was noted that ale quality was improving in that ales were becoming "lighter", "clearer" and colder. Indeed, cream ale and other blonde ales emerged by the end of the 1800's to take back some of the market lost to lagers.

I am not a fan of pilsners, and I'm not set up to lager anyway, so I'm thinking a really light Blond or a cream recipe, If I do a cream I might try to research some of the commercial cream ales produced by some of the larger breweries of that period and try to get close to that. The trouble is, I haven't been able to dig up much on pre-prohibition ales, most of the info is all about the rise of the German influenced breweries and pilsners...

I'll post whatever I dig up...and I'd appreciate any ideas. info you may have in your collection.

 

[Revvy]

This is interesting...I just found it.

I thought I would start with Cream Ale, Present Use Ale as described by Wahl & Henius, and modified with information on a 1901 Sparkling Ale described by Eckhardt. The beer had an original gravity of 1056-1057. It could be made with either all grain or a 70-30 mix of malt and corn or rice. According to Wahl & Henius, the beer had an alcohol by volume of 6%. The only pre-Prohibition ale listed by Eckhardt had 60 IBUs, which is as hoppy as a modern IPA. So I sat down and came up with this recipe:

Wahl & Henius-Eckhardt Ale

8 lbs liquid malt extract (I recommend Williams Brewing's American lager which has 30% corn extract)
1 1/2 ounces Cascade hops/60 minutes
1 1/4 ounces Cascade hops/30 minutes
1 1/4 ounces Cascade hops/10 minutes
American Ale Yeast

OG = 1056 IBU = 60 (yes, 60) ABV = 6%

 

[Revvy]

Ooh... Interesting piece in beeradvocate;

Regionally, the "Northeast" (i.e., New England, NY, NJ & PA) was always the strongest market for ale. The best known brand (which, at one point was marketed nationally) was Ballantine, out of Newark NJ. In the pre-Prohibition era, their main brand was known as "Ballantine Newark Ale" but they also brewed and market IPA, Porter and Stout. In 1877, P. Ballantine and Sons was among the top 4 brewers in the US (Pabst the only other well known name being one of the others, along with "Bergner & Engel" in Phila. and NYC's Ehret- those 4 the only "100,000 bbl" or over brewers).

Peter Ballantine (against the opinion of his sons) eventually bought a local lager brewery (Ballantine was also a malster, and one of the small local outfits, Schalk Brothers, during a recession owned a big malt bill to Peter and his sons) and, even tho' it was strictly a keg (no bottling) lager brewery, it eventually came to equal the production of the ale brewery- Ballantine Lager Beer production went from 40K barrels in 1880 to 227K in 1890 (when production at the separate "Ale and Porter" brewery was 202K). By the eve of Prohibition, Ballantine Beer came to outsell Ale by 75% to 25%.

Ironically, when American-born brothers of German extract, the Badenhausens, bought Ballantine on the eve of Repeal, they specifically set out to be a mainly ale brewery (they saw it as a more "upscale" product and charged more for it 15 cents a bottle vs. the normal 10 cents for beer). They hired a UK ale brewmaster from Burton (he created the modern Ballantine IPA as well as the Canadian-influenced "Ballantine XXX Ale" and, most notably, Ballantine Burton Ale) and the ale to beer ratio during the brewery's heyday (1930's-1950's) was reversed to 75% ale to 25% beer and the brewery was #3 in the US, far and away the largest single brewery (both Anheuser-Busch and Schlitz, which took turns at #1 and #2, were multi-plant companies by then).

In addition, other famous Northeast breweries continued to brew ale for many years (Genesee, Matts, Schaefer, Rheingold, Narragansett, many PA. breweries like C. Schmidt, The Lion, Yuengling, Ortlieb, Neuweiler). Even as late the 1970's, Falstaff (in the old Narragansett brewery in RI) was brewing Croft Ale, Pickwick Ale, Narrangansett Ale, Narrangansett Porter, along with Ballantine XXX Ale, Ballantine IPA and Ballantine Brewers Gold Ale, along with a few "cream ales" (Ballantine, Narragansett, Krueger).

Maybe a "Ballantine Newark Ale" clone....I've been fascinated with the history of Ballantine's, and early american breweries in general.

 

[Revvy]

This looks interesting as well..."American Handy Book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades "

http://www.hbd.org/aabg/wahl/

Hmm....

There are a few cream ales remaining, some of which are lager-ale hybrids. A really nice interpretation of this style, although they don't call it a cream ale, is New Glarus Brewery's "Spotted Cow Farmhouse Ale" from Wisconsin.

 

[lextasy23]

...bump.

I'm interested in making some sort of ale that would have been consumed in the late 18th century. Like a REAL Sam Adams lol.

I know it will be difficult to expect the same quality of hops, the same yeast strains, etc... But it would be cool to brew a 1770's style Ale.

I've been googling the crap out of this, with dead ends around every turn.

Suggestions?

 

[Coff]

Have you checked out Yards "Ales of the Revolution" Line of beers?

http://www.yardsbrewing.com/ales_general-washingtons-tavern-porter.asp

 

[Revvy]

I'm bumping this up because I've finally come close to what I've looked for all these years. MY Kentucky Common. Although it's technically an early 1900's recipe, I'm sure variations of this were more than likely consumed in the south in the mid to late 1800's.

 

[wickman6]

Subscribed. I'd like to give this a go as well!
After all, if it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me!

 

[OswaldvW]

Are you familiar with Albany Ale?

 

[andrewmaixner]

This looks interesting as well..."American Handy Book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades "

http://www.hbd.org/aabg/wahl/

Hmm....

uh.... I would absolutely NOT call Spotted Cow a farmhouse ale. It's a acceptable quality lager as a step-up replacement to B/M/C on tap in Wisconsin.

 

[ja09]

uh.... I would absolutely NOT call Spotted Cow a farmhouse ale. It's a acceptable quality lager as a step-up replacement to B/M/C on tap in Wisconsin.

?? Spotted Cow is a very well made beer and 100% not a lager. Might not be a wild or funky farmhouse, but I think Dan Carey has earned the right to call a beer whatever the hell he wants

 

[andrewmaixner]

?? Spotted Cow is a very well made beer and 100% not a lager. Might not be a wild or funky farmhouse, but I think Dan Carey has earned the right to call a beer whatever the hell he wants

Eh, I'm just going by what it tastes like to me, which is how I usually categorize a beer. I can rescind the "lager" comment on second thought, and since "Farmhouse" is currently a marketing term with no set characteristics, I guess I can't really say he is wrong then. I guess does remind me more of a cream ale, but well moderated sweetness. I suppose "cream ale" isn't as good of a marketing term.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Eh, I'm just going by what it tastes like to me, which is how I usually categorize a beer. I can rescind the "lager" comment on second thought, and since "Farmhouse" is currently a marketing term with no set characteristics, I guess I can't really say he is wrong then. I guess does remind me more of a cream ale, but well moderated sweetness. I suppose "cream ale" isn't as good of a marketing term.

Well I have two things to say here, farmhouse ales are traditionally just another word for saison. However currently, they're commercially either just a regular saison, or a saison with some sort of brett/sour bugs to differentiate it. Also it may be used to refer to a "rustic" appearance, ie they didn't filter, or may just bottle condition and leave it somewhat hazy in appearance. So while it's not a BJCP category by itself, it still has some guidelines.

Cream ale is what it is usually classified as on some beer rating/review sites due to the inclusion of flaked corn. However I would say the definitive characteristic would be the yeast, and so I would say it's closer to a saison/farmhouse ale than a cream ale.

Either way, it's definitely not a lager as it does not use lager yeast and did not go through a lagering process in cold storage.

 

[Hello]

I hope @revvy comes back so you all can discuss.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Well I have two things to say here, farmhouse ales are traditionally just another word for saison. However currently, they're commercially either just a regular saison, or a saison with some sort of brett/sour bugs to differentiate it. Also it may be used to refer to a "rustic" appearance, ie they didn't filter, or may just bottle condition and leave it somewhat hazy in appearance. So while it's not a BJCP category by itself, it still has some guidelines.

Cream ale is what it is usually classified as on some beer rating/review sites due to the inclusion of flaked corn. However I would say the definitive characteristic would be the yeast, and so I would say it's closer to a saison/farmhouse ale than a cream ale.

Interesting -- I don't recall any of BJCP saison/BDG category flavor characteristics in it. Guess I'll have to try again and see

 

[OswaldvW]

Check out the following link for a recipe to Albany Ale, an interesting and tasty pre-prohibition cream ale with a little twist.

https://beerbrew.com/words/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2013-Fall-Newsletter.pdf