question about simplified all grain brewing

[year2beer]

I've seen some you tube videos about all grain brewers bagging their crushed grains and steeping them in their brew kettle vs. Running them through a mash tun and sparging the grains. Instead... you just pull the bag out of the water, and collect the excess.

Is this still all grain brewing?

If so, what are the pros and cons of this type of process? Besides lowered costs... and time saved sanitizing...

Thanks ahead of time.

J

 

[gwcr]

That would be BIAB (Brew In A Bag), and yes it is all grain, unless you add ME to hit a target gravity. There is a great sticky thread at the top of this section on BIAB, and lots of other threads on here as well.

 

[Rev2010]

and time saved sanitizing...

Time saved sanitizing what? I don't sanitize my mash tun, I don't think people generally do because there's no need as you will be boiling that wort.

The only downside I've read about BIAB is lower effeciency, but I think some here have reported some high efficiencies doing BIAB. I decided to go the mash tun route. The mash tun is a one time cost and isn't all that pricey.


Rev.

 

[TopherM]

I do BIAB as my normal process. No problems with efficiency, I just always double crush my grains to up efficiency. I generally have 72-78% efficiency, so no issues there. You do save a little time because there is not as much cleanup, but that's no more than 15-20 min max. Most of all, it's just a simpler process IMO using one vessel instead of two or three in a traditional setup.

When I got started, I watched quite a few YouTube videos on BIAB that helped me get going. I'd start there if you are interested.

 

[pianobrew]

BIAB is also great because of the limited space it uses. You can do grain bill that would be tricky / impossible with the mash tun: all wheat beers, beers with high amounts of flaked ingredients. And it cuts off a good amount off time (at least one hour) off your brew day. Most people get higher efficiencies as long as you mash out and crush the grains twice.

 

[paraordnance]

I been BIAB for a year now and don't see myself going mash tun route. BIAB is so simple and quick once you dialed your process and volumes.

 

[pianobrew]

Agreed. Thank you Aussies!

 

[henryred]

The best place to start is what do you have for equipment? If you have a basic kit(bottling bucket, carboy/fermentor) you can go full all grain with an addition of a sparge bag and a blanket.

 

[Rev2010]

BIAB is also great because of the limited space it uses.

True, but one thing that always gets me wondering is how BIAB brewers maintain the mash temp in a kettle. With a cooler mash tun you can pretty much put the lid on and leave it for an hour and not drop much more than 1 degree or so in temp. I guess using the kettle you can simply add heat but don't you then have to hover the bag to prevent it from melting or scorching the grains?

A 10 gallon mash tun doesn't take all that much space at all and most of us have two kettles so I don't see it as all that more difficult to use a mash tun. And with a mash tun you can easily sparge and get more of the sugars out.


Rev.

 

[enkamania]

I put a towel and a blanket over the kettle to maintain the mash temp

 

[erockomania]

I use a stainless pizza crisper on the bottom so I don't scorch the bag if I need to add heat.

 

[copyright1997]

True, but one thing that always gets me wondering is how BIAB brewers maintain the mash temp in a kettle. With a cooler mash tun you can pretty much put the lid on and leave it for an hour and not drop much more than 1 degree or so in temp. I guess using the kettle you can simply add heat but don't you then have to hover the bag to prevent it from melting or scorching the grains?

A 10 gallon mash tun doesn't take all that much space at all and most of us have two kettles so I don't see it as all that more difficult to use a mash tun. And with a mash tun you can easily sparge and get more of the sugars out.


Rev.

You'd be surprised how well a stainless steel pot filled with water and grains keeps its temperature, especially if the water+grains is nearly to the top of the (covered) pot. However, I do this step in the kitchen on the stove top (not outside in the cold and wind) and it also helps that I'm heating my sparge water while mashing (thus keeping the stove area warmer). Now that I also have a propane burner, once the mash is done (e.g. 60 minutes0, I start getting the mash liquid up to almost boiling on the propane while I'm doing the 10-15 minute batch sparge.

 

[pianobrew]

It is quite amazing how much water does not want to change temp. And with about 8 gallons of it along with about 12 lbs of grains I lose 2 degrees over 60 min without covering it with blankets!

 

[RM-MN]

OK, for the pros of this method, I don't have to move hot water from my stove to a mash tun and then back to the stovetop to boil, the pot just stays put until it is time to chill. I don't have to worry about a stuck sparge so I can mill my grains finer, actually grinding them to near powder which decreases the time needed to get full conversion and reduces the need to sparge. If I want to I can skip the sparge step completely since I don't have to depend on rinsing out the sugars. I can get most of the sweet wort out of the grain by just squeezing the heck out of the bag of grain. I didn't even have to worry much about calculating the grain absorption of water since I squeeze almost all of it back out. The first few batches I calculated the efficiency and found that either sparging or no sparge gave me about 80% efficiency so the method is not inefficient.

While you read about the time required to do an all grain batch as being 6 to 8 hours, my all grain day can be 3 1/2 hours, not much more than doing extract with steeping grains. That 3 1/2 hours includes bring all my gear from the basement to the kitchen, mashing, boiling, chilling and cleanup including putting everything away in the basement again. I can grind my grains while the mash water is heating to temperature, relax for the hour of mashing since with the full volume of water in the kettle wrapped with a towel won't lose more than a degree over that full hour, pull the grain bag out and squeeze it while the water is coming to a boil instead of having to wait for the mash tun to drain and then be sparged. By knowing how my stove heats, I can just let it maintain the boil for the hour, checking occasionally to be sure it is still boiling without boiling over and spend that time sanitizing or relaxing. The hardest part for me is removing the pot of boiling water from the stove to begin the chilling. If I had an immersion chiller, I probably would chill it while it was sitting on the stovetop so I wouldn't have to deal with that hot liquid even.

The cons of this method, ....thinking.....thinking....what cons?

 

[LKABrewer]

OK, for the pros of this method, I don't have to move hot water from my stove to a mash tun and then back to the stovetop to boil, the pot just stays put until it is time to chill. I don't have to worry about a stuck sparge so I can mill my grains finer, actually grinding them to near powder which decreases the time needed to get full conversion and reduces the need to sparge. If I want to I can skip the sparge step completely since I don't have to depend on rinsing out the sugars. I can get most of the sweet wort out of the grain by just squeezing the heck out of the bag of grain. I didn't even have to worry much about calculating the grain absorption of water since I squeeze almost all of it back out. The first few batches I calculated the efficiency and found that either sparging or no sparge gave me about 80% efficiency so the method is not inefficient.

While you read about the time required to do an all grain batch as being 6 to 8 hours, my all grain day can be 3 1/2 hours, not much more than doing extract with steeping grains. That 3 1/2 hours includes bring all my gear from the basement to the kitchen, mashing, boiling, chilling and cleanup including putting everything away in the basement again. I can grind my grains while the mash water is heating to temperature, relax for the hour of mashing since with the full volume of water in the kettle wrapped with a towel won't lose more than a degree over that full hour, pull the grain bag out and squeeze it while the water is coming to a boil instead of having to wait for the mash tun to drain and then be sparged. By knowing how my stove heats, I can just let it maintain the boil for the hour, checking occasionally to be sure it is still boiling without boiling over and spend that time sanitizing or relaxing. The hardest part for me is removing the pot of boiling water from the stove to begin the chilling. If I had an immersion chiller, I probably would chill it while it was sitting on the stovetop so I wouldn't have to deal with that hot liquid even.

The cons of this method, ....thinking.....thinking....what cons?

Have you tried a 30# grain bill?

 

[pianobrew]

For a larger grain bill, you can figure out how much water you can fit in your kettle and fill it up to the top with the grains. You'll just have too add more water after you lift the grains out.

 

[Rev2010]

For a larger grain bill, you can figure out how much water you can fit in your kettle and fill it up to the top with the grains. You'll just have too add more water after you lift the grains out.

I think his point was more about lifting 30lbs of grain in a bag soaked with hot liquid out of the kettle?


Rev.

 

[kcross13]

I have minimal space in my house. BIAB just makes sense. I also like doing many small brews using the same yeast cake for experiments and varietal variations. It also saves on buying yeast.

 

[kcross13]

I heat my oven to the lowest temp. 170. I then turn off the oven and place my kettle and grains in. My strike water is usually 175. I put in the kettle about 155. The thermometer temp reads about 158 at the end. I just started but am drifting closer to 70% efficiency.

 

[ChuckCollins]

I second what pianobrew says

Most people get higher efficiencies as long as you mash out and crush the grains twice

That is how I do it!!!!

 

[warex]

Have you tried a 30# grain bill?

Most people are doing 5 gallon batches. So no 30 pound grain bill. But so what 30 pounds of grain and even 20 pounds of suspended water is only 50 pounds. If you can't lift 50 pounds with one hand long enough to put an oven rack between the bag and pot you should quit drinking beer and lift some weights.

 

[pianobrew]

most people are doing 5 gallon batches. So no 30 pound grain bill. But so what 30 pounds of grain and even 20 pounds of suspended water is only 50 pounds. If you can't lift 50 pounds with one hand long enough to put an oven rack between the bag and pot you should quit drinking beer and lift some weights.

lol!

 

[copyright1997]

Have you tried a 30# grain bill?

Yes, lifting the wet grain bag from the 152 degree mash or 170 degree sparge is the biggest downfall of this method. I dropped the bag into my sparge once, got liquid on the floor, cabinets, ceiling, walls, and all over myself. Fortunately no hot liquid on exposed skin, but it was a mess to deal with.

 

[Grumpybumpy]

I made this to keep my temp constant. Works really well!



Sent from my SCH-I500 using Home Brew Talk

 

[Righlander]

i never really understood why people wouldn't want to use a mash tun. i do a lot of beers with grain bills over 16lbs. i couldn't imagine trying to add that much grain to a kettle and then trying to keep the temp just right, while messing with the burner. obviously a lot of people like the BIAB method. but i tried it once and found it to be more stressful. but hey that's just me. making a mash tun is simple, cheap, and really fun! if you've never tried using one, why not try it out?

 

[glenn514]

Just this past Friday, I brewed up a batch of Autumn Amber Ale using Midwest's all-grain recipe and Biab technology. No problems keeping the mash temp at 152°F! If it dropped to 150°, I just turned on the burner for ten seconds. And at time to sparge, I tea-bag my grain bag in the 170° water for a good fifteen minutes and then use that liquid to rinse the sugars into the wort. A mash tun may well be in my future, but right now, Biab works for me.

glenn514

 

[pianobrew]

i never really understood why people wouldn't want to use a mash tun. i do a lot of beers with grain bills over 16lbs. i couldn't imagine trying to add that much grain to a kettle and then trying to keep the temp just right, while messing with the burner. obviously a lot of people like the BIAB method. but i tried it once and found it to be more stressful. but hey that's just me. making a mash tun is simple, cheap, and really fun! if you've never tried using one, why not try it out?

I do more of a brew in a sheet process. I bought a voile curtain from target for $5 and drape it over my kettle as I mash in and let the weight of the grain pull the sheet down. As I am resting I tighten it up around the kettle and twist it so it all is bundled into one area. This will make it a lot easier to pull the grain out. The sheet is very big. I could have lifted up my 12 lb grain bill with my pinky. You don't have to deal with knitting a bag or buying a more expensive and less fine of a bag that they sell at Homebrew shops.

You cannot tell me that you can make a mash tun for less than $5

 

[year2beer]

It seems to me that utilizing a mash tun is just adding an extra step. In fact, you could technically build a grain holder that you submerge in your brew kettle. Bag or whatever takes the place of.it...

I imagine it would be cheap to build and very easy to clean. Especially if you build a handle into it... all you gotta do is pull the spent grains out, an place them above your kettle to drain.

My biggest question at that point is whether you even need to sparge the mash. Why not just compress the grains, to remove the sugars?

Maybe I'm over simplifying thing?

 

[Rev2010]

Why not just compress the grains, to remove the sugars?

Squeezing the grains is by no means enough to get out all the sugars. Think of it in this way... if you take a soapy sponge can you get all the soap out simply by squeezing it? Of course not. However, rinsing the sponge a few times gets out most of the soap.


Rev.