Question about secondary

[duskb]

Since I started brewing years ago I made a conscious decision to skip 2ndary. A lot of this decision was based on feedback in this forum. Since I had a couple of batches go south and I didn't see the benefit of risking exposing the beer to another transfer stage I just didn't do it.

Well, recently I kegged the Plinian Legacy from Northern brewer which required dry hopping. I didn't think much of it. It sat in a bucket for 3-4 weeks, I dry hopped, and racked. Problem is a lot of the hops ran over into the keg, mucking it up. I was then forced to transfer to another keg which made me realize I was moving my beer after being kegged, which is a no no. (Btw the beer turned out fine).

The question is this. The beer doesn't understand the difference between secondary in a keg versus a bucket. So if I rack to a keg, pressurize it to purge the oxygen, and then cold condition how would the beer know the difference if I was to do the opposite (rack to bucket and let sit a room temp for a month). I can only guess that the beer ages differently in a fridge versus at room temp.

Maybe this is too big a topic for one post, I dunno. But I'm starting to wonder why I can't condition cold and then transfer to another keg, possibly without even using a cane.

Any thoughts?

 

[unionrdr]

Cold conditioning, or lagering, is fine for lagers & pilsners. Not so much for ales.

 

[kh54s10]

I dry hop in primary. I bag the hops so that I 1) don't lose too much wort in the hops and 2) don't get the hops into the keg.

Are transferring to a second keg before it is carbonated the risks are infection from the equipment it touches and oxidation from the second transfer.

If you are cold conditioning in a keg, why do you need to transfer it to another keg later? If you are worried about sediment it should be removed in the first glass drawn off the keg.

If you warm condition in a keg, just purge the headspace add a small amount of pressure to keep the lid seated and leave it.

I don't know the flavor difference between warm and cold conditioning, maybe worth a side by side tasting some day!!!

I recommend transferring as least as possible. For me it is usually just once. From primary to keg.

 

[stratslinger]

The question is this. The beer doesn't understand the difference between secondary in a keg versus a bucket. So if I rack to a keg, pressurize it to purge the oxygen, and then cold condition how would the beer know the difference if I was to do the opposite (rack to bucket and let sit a room temp for a month). I can only guess that the beer ages differently in a fridge versus at room temp.

A couple things are going on here that are worth consideration:

1) The temperature difference can have an impact on how an ale "ages" - the colder it is, the less active the residual yeast, thus the less change you'll see in the beer (from a yeast-imparted flavor perspective anyway)

2) The lack of oxygen can be a huge difference. Keg the beer and purge it of O2, like you described, and you've just removed a source of (further?) oxidation in your beer. Rack it to a bucket, and you have a lot of surface area wide open to absorption of available O2. Rack it to an appropriately sized vessel so you leave minimal headspace, and you greatly reduce this O2 exposure - but basically, if you rack to something you can't purge of O2, you run an increased risk of oxidation.

 

[duskb]

I dry hop in primary. I bag the hops so that I 1) don't lose too much wort in the hops and 2) don't get the hops into the keg.

Are transferring to a second keg before it is carbonated the risks are infection from the equipment it touches and oxidation from the second transfer.

If you are cold conditioning in a keg, why do you need to transfer it to another keg later? If you are worried about sediment it should be removed in the first glass drawn off the keg.

If you warm condition in a keg, just purge the headspace add a small amount of pressure to keep the lid seated and leave it.

I don't know the flavor difference between warm and cold conditioning, maybe worth a side by side tasting some day!!!

I recommend transferring as least as possible. For me it is usually just once. From primary to keg.

I want to take a second to respond to this. First of all, thank you guys for your responses. I pulled my kegs out and put them at room temp last night.

There a a few responses above that sort of raise more questions.

Re: transferring multiple times before carbing: two things, are you implying that once the beer is carbed it's safer to transfer? I seemed to interpret it that way. The whole point of transferring out of primary is to "prep" the beer for conditioning. I have had many (all mostly) beers go straight to keg and gas but by the time the beer ages to flavor it's half gone. My thought was keeping brews in secondary longer and transferring for clarity. Maybe clarity is not all its cracked up to be.

Re: cold conditioning in a keg and transferring later: I guess the thought is to cold crash to dump sediment out and pull the beer off and let it age at room temp till it's "done"? False idea? I guess technically I could push the beer to a clean keg with a transfer hose (to avoid risks) but it does risk bringing over some of the sediment with it.

My reason for overanalyzing it is I had a friend bring over some of his brews and they're quite good, better than mine, and he's been brewing for a year. One of the things he does different than i is he leaves the beer in secondary for months and kegs later. I'm not doing that and can't help but wonder if that's part of the difference.


Honest questions.

 

[unionrdr]

They don't need to sit in a secondary for months. They don't even need to sit in a secondary. But since you're kegging, let it drop clear or slightly misty in primary. Then rack to a secondary no bigger than the batch size. Let it drop clear in secondary, then rack to the keg. Leaving all the trub/yeast behind before racking to the keg will give clearer beer & better flavor sooner, in my opinion. But kegged beer still needs some conditioning time.