Question about First Wort Hop.

[hnycrk]

So my recipie calls for 1.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.20 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop)*
So when batch sparging do I add the hops after the first runnings or do I add them after I sparge and have the full boil volume? Also can the first wort hops stay in the entire boil or should I remove them once I start the boil. I normally just dump the the hops right into the kettle and don't use any type of strainer bag.

 

[BackAlley]

I throw the loose pellets in the kettle then start the sparging process. I think the idea is to get maximum utilization and a clean bittering.

 

[Silentnoiz]

I batch sparge, and when I do a FWH, I put the FWH's in the empty BK (I don't start the flame right away) and then start sparging. I keep them in for the entire boil.

 

[AnOldUR]

So when batch sparging do I add the hops after the first runnings or do I add them after I sparge and have the full boil volume?

Neither. You add them before the first running to the empty kettle.

I throw the loose pellets in the kettle then start the sparging process. I think the idea is to get maximum utilization and a clean bittering.

Actually you should throw them into the empty kettle before starting your lauter, not wait until you sparge.

 

[brew_ny]

do I add the hops after the first runnings

yes you do, put them in your brew kettle with you first runnings

all the best

S_M

 

[stpug]

Semantics are fun

-Empty BK
-Toss in your FWH
-Drain all runnings
-Boil away

Pretty easy

 

[hnycrk]

Thanks for the quick response everyone! So in the empty kettle they'll go then first runnings then the sparge on top of that. One more question what if I messed up and added the FWH along with 60min hops? I'm guessing my beer would be more bitter than the recipe call for. Right?

 

[BackAlley]

One more question what if I messed up and added the FWH along with 60min hops? I'm guessing my beer would be more bitter than the recipe call for. Right?

Yes.

 

[brew_ny]

. One more question what if I messed up and added the FWH along with 60min hops? I'm guessing my beer would be more bitter than the recipe call for. Right?

I find FWH adds a smoothness to the bittering, I do not do any hopping until below 30 minutes in my boils now

most the time for me it has become 20 minutes and down

but it is all to your taste in the end

all the best with your brew

S_M

 

[curtw]

Any advice for when to FWH with a BIAB setup? I do no sparging. Should I add hops at the end of the mash?

 

[brew_ny]

Any advice for when to FWH with a BIAB setup? I do no sparging. Should I add hops at the end of the mash?

that is a good question, I have not read an answer

but I put my hops in my BK and then add my first runnings and then I batch sparge

I double batch sparge for 10 minutes each so my hop more then likely sit in the BK

for 25 minute before I turn on the heat, so maybe you could just let them stand in the BK for 20 - 25 minutes then start your boil

it would be about the same thing

just my two cents of course

S_M

 

[Larso]

Any advice for when to FWH with a BIAB setup? I do no sparging. Should I add hops at the end of the mash?

I do full vol BIAB no sparge and I FWH by adding hops immediately when I pull bag.

 

[brew_ny]

I do full vol BIAB no sparge and I FWH by adding hops immediately when I pull bag.

do you let it sit at all before you turn on the heat ? or just start the boil ?

S_M

 

[stpug]

One more question what if I messed up and added the FWH along with 60min hops? I'm guessing my beer would be more bitter than the recipe call for. Right?

Your tongue will have to be the judge of that.

Some folks suggest you'll get the bitterness of a 20 minute addition from FWH, and to not adjust your bittering addition.

Others suggest that you'll get full bitterness from the hops, but it'll be "smoother" so it won't be as prominent.

Others suggest that you'll actually get more bitterness from them.

Others suggest that you'll actually get more bitterness from them, but since it's smoother it will seem like less.

And, yet, others suggest it makes no difference at all.

FWHs are not thoroughly understood, scientifically. Therefore we are left to our own perceptions to judge how they are utilized in our boil kettles.

I, personally, find them to be a regular old full boil bittering addition from the bittering perspective. I do not grasp the "smoother" character; in fact, I sometimes find their bitterness to be a bit more grabby. To me, the grabbiness works in some beers (pale ales, ipas, etc) but not so well in others (cream ales, Scottish ales, etc). Additionally, I _may_ perceive some additional hop character retained from FWHs, which again works well for the same beers and not so well for the others. Then again, this might be a fulfilling prophecy on my part, and hard to test since the beers I use FWHs are already very hop-present. So, for me, I implement FWH using my normal bittering addition on specific beers styles only.

 

[brew_ny]

Then again, this might be a fulfilling prophecy on my part, and hard to test since the beers I use FWHs are already very hop-present. So, for me, I implement FWH using my normal bittering addition on specific beers styles only.

what I did at first with FWH was put half of the 60 min addition in for the FWH and then the other half at 60 min

now I do not but the last 5 brews for me have been SMaSHs with a IBU of a blonde ale

so who knows

all the best

S_M

 

[Larso]

do you let it sit at all before you turn on the heat ? or just start the boil ?

S_M

I start to bing it up to boil but this takes a minimum of 30mins or so to reach boil

 

[brew_ny]

I start to bing it up to boil but this takes a minimum of 30mins or so to reach boil

makes sense , thanks for the reply

S_M

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Another thing to be careful of is that you generally don't want to use high %AA hops for FWH; in fact many advise that it be restricted to the noble hops and their British equivalents (e.g., EKG and Fuggles), though that's probably a bit too restrictive. The claim is that, whereas with flavoring and aroma hops it tends to mellow the bitterness somewhat, with bittering hops (high %AA hops with coarse flavor and little or no aroma, such as Nugget or Warrior), it tends to have the reverse effect, emphasizing the coarser, less desirable qualities.

I've used FWH with noble hops and some non-noble low alpha hops (e.g., Liberty, in my cream ale) to good effect, but I haven't tried it with high alpha hops for this reason. Has anyone tried using bittering hops as FWH? Just wondering.

 

[brew_ny]

but I haven't tried it with high alpha hops for this reason. Has anyone tried using bittering hops as FWH? Just wondering.

I am drinking a Vienna SMaSH I FWH with Perle

I used an oz of Perle

FWH, 20 min, 5 min, 3 min for an IBU of 22.38 and a BU:GU ratio of .47

which makes it like a blonde for hops, I like Perle so I think it tastes outstanding

all the best

S_M

 

[stpug]

I've used FWH with noble hops and some non-noble low alpha hops (e.g., Liberty, in my cream ale) to good effect, but I haven't tried it with high alpha hops for this reason. Has anyone tried using bittering hops as FWH? Just wondering.

Since my experience with FWHing has shown them to impart substantial bitterness (i.e. a full boil bitterness) and some potential hop aroma/flavor characteristics, I have reserved FWHing for those brews where the bittering charge hop flavor/aroma is desirable.

In short: Yes. Most of my IPAs, APAs, hoppy ambers, american browns are FWHed using the bittering charge.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

In short: Yes. Most of my IPAs, APAs, hoppy ambers, american browns are FWHed using the bittering charge.

I was more wondering about the varieties used; you could, after all, use low alpha hops for bittering, and just use more of them. I assume that you are mostly talking about high alpha varieties, right?

 

[stpug]

I was more wondering about the varieties used; you could, after all, use low alpha hops for bittering, and just use more of them. I assume that you are mostly talking about high alpha varieties, right?

Yes, high alpha varieties (chinook, columbus, super galena, nugget to name a few). I typically use high alpha for my higher ibu beers.

 

[steelbier]

What are the BIAB results of FWH? I just used 7.2 AA Kents in 3 gallons dry stout, but only an ounce. I added them after I upped the temp and pulled the bag. Let it sit for 25 and started the boil.


Smelled great but I wonder if I'll get up to appropriate IBUs. I'd say the hops were exposed to 170-100 degree temps all times before the boil. Wyeast 1084.

 

[Denny]

Another thing to be careful of is that you generally don't want to use high %AA hops for FWH; in fact many advise that it be restricted to the noble hops and their British equivalents (e.g., EKG and Fuggles), though that's probably a bit too restrictive. The claim is that, whereas with flavoring and aroma hops it tends to mellow the bitterness somewhat, with bittering hops (high %AA hops with coarse flavor and little or no aroma, such as Nugget or Warrior), it tends to have the reverse effect, emphasizing the coarser, less desirable qualities.

I've used FWH with noble hops and some non-noble low alpha hops (e.g., Liberty, in my cream ale) to good effect, but I haven't tried it with high alpha hops for this reason. Has anyone tried using bittering hops as FWH? Just wondering.

You can FWH with any hop you like the flavor of, regardless of AA. I've FWH with 2% Saaz and 18% Summit. It's all in what you use and how you use it.

 

[Denny]

I was more wondering about the varieties used; you could, after all, use low alpha hops for bittering, and just use more of them. I assume that you are mostly talking about high alpha varieties, right?

The problem with using low alpha hops for bittering as that you have to use so much that it gives the beer a vegetal character.

 

[tgmartin000]

I've found that I still prefer small bittering charges at 60 and 30 minutes even when using FWH. I like the firmer bitterness you get from the boil additions, and the extra hop compounds help with head retention.

 

[Denny]

I've found that I still prefer small bittering charges at 60 and 30 minutes even when using FWH. I like the firmer bitterness you get from the boil additions, and the extra hop compounds help with head retention.

I agree. I use FWH for flavor, so I make a 1-2 oz. FWH addition counting the bittering as a 20 min. addition. Then I add enough more hops at 60 to get the IBU I want for bitterness.

 

[captainkirk83]

Seems to be lots of opinions on how this effects flavor. Lots of good info here on the procedure. I think I'll try fwh on Friday.

 

[HappiBrew]

Glad I read this. I'm doing Denny's Wry smile in a few weeks and it called for a FWH. I was having trouble scaling everything for my efficiency. Got the grain bill down but couldn't figure IBUs with the FWH addition. I think I can piece something together now.

 

[CA_Mouse]

I did FWH with my DCA, I had 1.5oz of 17.5% CTZ as my 60 minute bittering addition. dropped it to 1oz and made it FWH. I believe that it had a slightly higher bitterness than had I added it at 60 minutes, but there was more flavor to the bitterness. We could all tell that the bitterness was white grapefruit rather than just a citrus bitterness. I now do FWH for any of my beers that I need or want a solid bitterness that can be identified.