Question about 5gal batch all SS equipment brewing

blacks4 · Jun 27, 2011

Hey guys,

Looking to upgrade to AG 5gal but looking to use all Stainless and not plastic coolers. Currently have a 42qt boil kettle (no thermometer or valve). Looking at getting (2) 32-33qt SS pots for the HLT and MT. Considering putting weldless thermometers and valves in each pot, plus a sight glass on the boil kettle. I only have one burner but think I could work out the logistics as necessary. This sound right? Each vessel needs to have a valve, and a built-in thermometer is a great plus, but the sight is only necessary on the boil kettle right?

Anyone else here using all SS for 5 gal batches (ie not using kegs/keggles)?

Also, question about AG brewing: I plan on fly sparging and taking my time for optimal efficiency, but if you collect 8-9 gallons of wort from sparging and know you're going to boil it down to 5.5gal, do you boil it for a while and say get down to 6-7gallons before starting the hop additions? If you start adding hops and it's supposed to be a 60 minute boil, but you need to boil for 120 minutes to get down to 5.5gal, what does that do to the hops that you added (that should have only been in there less than 60 minutes)?

Thanks guys. Love the forum and learn so much every day I read a bunch of posts.

Steve

blacks4 · Jun 28, 2011

also, do any of you wrap the MT with some sort of insulation to keep the temp more stable? Thanks.

Zen_Brew · Jun 28, 2011

Lots of people on all stainless systems. Particularly HERMS and RIMMS users. A sight glass on the HLT can be quite handy as well. You can track how much water you are moving into your MT. No sight glass on the MT though.

Insulating the MT is often a good idea, particularly if you are not maintaining temp with a recirculating setup.

Yes if you are going to sparge to a volume of 8 or 9 gallons you would want to boil it down a bit before hop additions. How far you boil it down would depend on your evaporation rate which is unique to each person based on equipment and ambient environment.

I batch sparge and recirc on a HERMS system, but it seems to me plenty of people fly sparge without collecting a great deal of extra wort. You may want to revisit your sparge procedure if you think you are going to continually be pulling a couple extra gallons out. I believe the key is a very slow runoff, not necessarily a high volume of runoff.

jfowler1 · Jun 28, 2011

For your first question, my AG system uses all food grade parts, but I use coolers for my MLT and HLT. In other words, all of my valves, bulkheads, gaskets, fittings, clamps, false bottom, tubing, etc. are either stainless steel or a food grade high temp plastic. Once my brewing water leaves the filter, everything is food grade. Stainless steel is a very durable product, but you have to look at the obvious downside of using it for the HLT and MLT - it is a terrible insulator. It looks great, but even if your system is able to direct fire, you will be struggling with chasing temperatures during the mash and the sparge. A cooler is very no-frills, and you can't put boiling water into it, but once you set a temperature, you can walk away. That is something that you need to keep in mind.

For your other question, I see no reason to collect so much wort pre-boil, especially if you intend on boiling it down. It is just a waste of time and energy. I have been happy with a 15% evaporation rate and a 75 minute boil. I think 75 minutes is a good compromise of energy vs DMS reduction. It also allows 15 minutes for hot break formation before you start your hop schedule.

To show the math, 7 gallons is 28 quarts. After the first hour, at 15% evaporation, you will have a little less than ~24 quarts in the kettle. Another 15 minutes at 15% evaporation will reduce volume by another ~1 qt, leaving a little over 22 qts (5.5 gallons) in the kettle at the end of boil. Naturally, your equipment and brewing environment will determine your evaporation rate, but regardless, I think 15% per hour is a good number to work toward.

To collect 8 or 9 gallons, just for the sake of squeezing a little more sugar out of the mash seems silly to me. Those last one or two gallons of runnings will be the lowest quality wort you collect. It may show a slightly lower efficiency by only collecting 7 gallons and leaving some sugars behind, but that is a simple recipe adjustment. It may cost you an extra pound of grain, but the wort quality will be optimized.

The phrase "I plan on fly sparging and taking my time for optimal efficiency" is really a pet peeve of mine (the other is bragging about a short lag time). I hate that efficiency has become a topic to brag about. Let your process determine your efficiency, instead of letting efficiency determine your process. The goal is consistency. If you are constantly getting 50% eff, then yes, you have an equipment/crush/process issue - but very few people are in that boat. I used to be around 88%, and found that my wort was too grainey and tannic. I now use a coarser crush, and sparge much faster (pre boil volume is collected in about 30 minutes) and I reduced my efficiency to about 75%. I am much happier with the richer and smoother tasting wort, and I think you will be too. Over sparging is not your friend.

Joe

blacks4 · Jun 28, 2011

Thanks for the good answers guys. I know I'm not putting boiling water in the coolers but am just worried about stuff leaching into my wort from the plastic, and even Rubbermaid won't recommend putting hot liquid in their coolers (for fear of warpage, let alone chemicals leaching). I definitely don't want to collect way too much just to have to boil it down. I'll just have to play with it to get where I'm consistent and pretty efficient.

Thanks.

Steve