Quantity vs quality

[MaryB]

Local brewery makes a Red Velvet Chocolate oatmeal stout I absolutely LOVE. Seasonal beer for them but extremely popular. But they refuse to offer it in a stand alone 6 pack. I have to buy a 12 pack of beer to get 3 of them then 9other medicore meh beers I would not go out of my way to even sample... emailed them, nope we do not plan to offer it on its own... everyone I know loves the stuff(and I am working on cloning it) which is piss poor marketing on their part!

 

[ESBrewer]

This is a world wide trend as we know. Same thing here in Finland. We have lots of tiny, new breweries that seem to make a huge range of different beers. Unfortunately, most of them are of mediocre quality. I don't think all these are going to survive unless they focus on some key products and refine the quality of the product instead of rushing out with so many styles. For sure people get interested in these products because traditionally, the beer culture here has focused on pale and watery lagers from a couple of big companies. But later when these people have tried all these new things and perhaps some classic beers from abroad, they are not going to be that excited anymore. Then the competitition will bring down many small breweries unless they focus on the quality instead of quantity. Another problem is the consistency. I have noticed that quality of the beer varies a lot between batches and sometimes these breweries are unable to produce the exactly same beer twice, either because the ingredients will change or because of inconsistent brewing conditions.

 

[Brewpastor]

Why do you make your own in this world of breweries?

I am a snob and I know it. I also can brew better than most folks around me. I love a pint out. But I hate wasting money on swill.

I'm a National Judge. I believe I can taste. So quality wins. Id love quantities. But not if it sucks.

So I brew my own mostly. If it sucks its my fault.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I'm going to partially take back what I said in earlier posts. I actually found a brewery that had more than one non-IPA

We stopped at ballast point in sandy eggo a few days ago on the way to sea world. Walked up to the counter thinking about a flight. Bar dude says "what would you like today, sir". [dammit, that "sir" stuff. i cant be that old yet] I said "how about the four-flight of anything that's NOT overhopped or has IPA in its name". He says "oh, you like real beers, lets see if we can find four. This might be kinda tough" (I cant stop laughing at his "real beer" statement). Together we were able to pick out three from the list. The fourth was a crapshoot, so I randomly said "make it the red velvet oatmeal stout". He said I should really try the juicy-somethingeranother, but listed at 110 IBU I knew I would puke on his nice clean countertop and I may require fiber and exlax to get my intestines working again, after something that hardcore.

Sorry, I don't remember the fishy names (they name their brews after fish) but here were the results...

Pilsner: Refreshing and nice. Still a bit overhopped with something dank and rank
Kolsch: Very nice!
Wit: Definite Yummy!
Red Velvet oatmeal stout: Not a stout whatsoever. The tap list display was wrong. It was a very light and clear ale with purple-pink food coloring that smelled and tasted exactly like red velvet cake! I found it disgusting, but I would give it an A+++ for the originality and adding cake mix to beer. My 21 year old loved it.

 

[Gameface]

I agree with you bwarbiany. Those style guideline things are forced limitations that do not make sense, therefore competitions also do not make real sense to me. It is like cooking. Telling me that I can only use this and that ingredient in my apple pie? Or my steak can only be seasoned with this and that and not pan fried but only grilled.... that wouldn't make sense at all, same for trying to force guidelines on beers.

Come on, all those styles developed over time due to either circumstances (taxes, hard water, shortage of specific grains/malts etc.) or due to taste of the people, or both combined. Meaning, there was no regulatory body telling them what to do. And they keep on developing till today. I'll bet the first IPAS tasted very much different then the ones today. So why trying to make it fix in an artificial way? Is it about making great beer or about sniffing ones own farts while looking very serious when "judging" a beer according to "guidelines" and being so so so sofisticated?

Naa, that is rubbish.

As far as using style guidelines to limit the boundaries of beer, for beer you just want to drink and enjoy, yeah, that doesn't make sense.

But the guidelines and competitions are very valuable in their own way. For one, it allows you to calibrate your taste buds. This beer tastes like "this." So when you're tasting "that" you know what it is.

But for a brewer, it sets the parameters for what flavors we need to achieve and then we challenge ourselves to deliver those flavors, that balance, the overall experience of that type of beer. It shows that you know how to control the way your beer tastes, it's not just some happy accident. You understand the ingredients, you understand the process and you can execute a beer with a level of competence, quality and consistency that wins awards... because you were able to draw inside the lines. Then you take those skills and make whatever beer you want without regard for style guidelines and you're brewing is all the better for it.

 

[Gytaryst]

Why are so many people jumping into the brewing business in record numbers? Is it because there are sooooo many people out there who truly and whole heartedly believe that it's all about the beer . . . NOT the money?

I doubt it. The criticism leveled at the big corporate macrobrewewies is that they only care about the money - they don't care about the quality. Pump out as much swill as they can, as cheaply as they can, to make as much money as they can. That's why EVERYONE in the craft beer community loves to hate those greedy bastards. They don't care about anything but the money.

So why are soooo many people jumping into the brewery business these days???

 

[z-bob]

So why are soooo many people jumping into the brewery business these days???

Umm, for the love of the art?

 

[Gytaryst]

Umm... yeah... that's why. HA HA HA

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I've run into the same thing as the OP. I can see brewing an assortment of styles to appeal to as many people as possible. I can see maybe putting less emphasis on the beer if you're main product is food and the brewery aspect is just to get people in the door.

That being said, the Mrs and I like to stop off at breweries when we're travelling. Many are only nano's with no food. In that market, I'd expect two things: Enough variety to appeal to just about anyone who comes in (IPA, Moderate PA, Wheat, Lager, Stout and a berliner wiess as an example) and each should be a really good example of the style (not saying the "official style" just something really tasty and well done for that type of beer).

I'm amazed at the variation. In Iowa you can go to Toppling Goliath or Pulpit Rock and get world class beers, but at most of the places I go, it's like the OP...sample and can't find anything worthy of a full glass. Watery wimpy stouts, IPAs with with off flavors or just an IBU bomb, Porters that taste like an ash tray, lagers with enough diacytel to butter some toast, etc.

My friends and family are serious beer people. Like beer-cation travelers who fly across the country just to hit breweries and festivals beer people. They all say I'm brewing beer better than 90% of the nano's and nearly on par with TG and PR. I've been brewing for 9 months using a cooler and a turkey frier. The point isn't to toot my own horn, it's that brewing really isn't that hard if you take the time to learn what affects the flavors and how to avoid the pitfalls. I think many of these nano's are either cutting corners on ingredients or process to keep costs down or they're just not taking it seriously.

I'm betting a huge percentage of the people here are brewing better beer than most nano's simply because they spend time here learning and improving their craft. They literally put the "craft" in "craft beer". If you want to be in the craft beer business, you have to put the beer ahead of the business. If you do, history shows people will come. Look at More Brewing in Chicago. Started by a brewer who was brewing destination beers at a chain brewpub!

I think the week one's will drop off (I've seen two area nano's go by the wayside in the last 12 months), but the real crash is looming. When I look at how many beers are in the store, most of which I've had and think are marginal, many of which are aging on the shelves, and it's clear the boom can't be supported.

 

[Gytaryst]

For all the breweries and/or brew pubs I've ever visited I can probably think of 2 or 3 that actually stick out as making an above average impression on me, (for whatever reason). Of the hundreds and hundreds of beers I've tasted in all those breweries over the years, I quite honestly can't think of one beer that I ever thought stood out significantly from the pack. Some were better than others, (obviously). Some came with a lot of hype behind them. Some were popular and had high ratings on beer rating websites - the vast majority were just average unknown same ole same ole. There are quite a few breweries where I wasn't impressed with any of the beers, and some of those are popular breweries.

So who knows.

 

[chris000]

Doing smart business will keep one in business; and if history told us something than that truly exceptional products were always financial disasters. Being the first in the market most often pays, being the best doesn't.
Now add to that, that there is quite an upper limit of how much one can ask for a pint leaving not much of a margin if you go all out on quality (ingredients, process and short shelf life, etc).
On the other hand, most people cannot taste much at all - those who always talk about how great some food/beverage are here and there is often base it on other factors than actual flavour/aroma. Actually, I don't care how great a beer looks in the glass or some food is put on the plate; my sentiments about some (i.e. many) reviewers are accordingly.
Logically, investing in location, interior, events, good looking waitress, selection will give any dummy a better return on their investment than the most skilled craftsman (investing 100% into their product) could dream of.
I stopped ordering the rare beers on tap, I now order whatever everyone else drinks (aka cheap p**s), since it is at least fresh. If a place has more than five beers on tap, it's not about the beer, but about the "experience" for the hipster or the family restaurant patron alike.
the hipster brew pubs are just about reason enough to brew myself as are the global mega breweries.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

There I was today at a brewery in Anaheim commiefornia. Fantastic root beer! Couple good lagers (one was dry-beaned with coffee). Very nice stout too. Wifey loved the apple/pineapple cider.

I look up and see on the tap list "TIPA 120 IBU 13% ABV". Sorry kids, that's not beer or quality anything. I'm sure the turpentine sells and probably pays the bills, but the only thing I would do with that would be play a joke on a friend or light a BBQ. A few minutes later my wife asked "what's an IPL?". I said "an over hopped bitter as hell lager". The guy behind the counter said "that about sums it up!".

 

[Gytaryst]

... I look up and see on the tap list "TIPA 120 IBU 13% ABV". Sorry kids, that's not beer or quality anything. I'm sure the turpentine sells and probably pays the bills, but the only thing I would do with that would be play a joke on a friend or light a BBQ. A few minutes later my wife asked "what's an IPL?". I said "an over hopped bitter as hell lager"...

The higher the abv and IBU's, the higher the rating on beer rating sights. To misquote Ray Daniels, "The craft beer community simply traded the tyranny of the American Adjunct Lager for the tyranny of IPA's."
I joined the craft beer revolution late - I missed the boom. When I got interested in it I started scouring the dubya dubya dubya to find whatever I could to educate myself. I began to notice that about 95% of everything I pulled up was posted 5 to 10 years ago. I found a list of about 10 or 15 home brew clubs around the Phoenix area. When I dug deeper I found most of them went belly up years ago. There was like 2 or 3 hanging on by a thread (at that time), and today I think there's pretty much just one big club here that costs too much to join.
I still get a kick out of all the black IPA's out there. The blacker [pale] they can get the better I say.

 

[chris000]

I guess my experiences with "brew pubs" predates the craft beer hype - all the way back to the days when I was a child.
I remember going to a certain brew pub with my parents more or less on an annual basis for quite some time.
At the beginning, the place was limited brewery employees only (mid size regional brewery), then some of the locals, and it spread from there (that was about when started to go there). They had one beer and one sprite-like soda on tap. There was one (not overly friendly) guy behind the tap, not even a single waiter. They did not serve ANY food. Services provided were limited to a washrooms (trough style), ubiquitous cigarette vending machines in the same and some rather uncomfortable benches and tables. If you wanted something other than a beer, you better brought it yourself (and took your garbage home as well)!
So, why would that "experience" draw people in. Well, the beer they sold (in stores) was good but not outstanding. The stuff you got there on the other hand was just perfect. They swore that it was just one of the tanks they normally filled bottles from hooked up behind the barrel. While the thing with the fake barrel was likely true, what you got there was not comparable to what you got in the store.
Long story short, people traveled there just to enjoy a rather simple beer. Same style as you could get anywhere else for the same price - just a little bit better.
Over the years however, it turned into a tourist place (literally by the bus loads) and they certainly didn't care about the perfect Lager. One time, we got the message; the beer was just as uneventful as anywhere else. Numbers mattered now, the new big parking lot had to be paid for and bus tourists cannot only drink more, but also pay more. It wasn't about the beer itself any longer and one could taste that.