Prototype Previews: Hopback and Heat Stick

Williams 728
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Oh, I wish. It's a fair question though so I'll explain.

You add an off the shelf element of your choice. Then add a cord and plug of your choice. Personally I'd recommend trying to find an extension cord with an integrated GFCI plug on it if you don't have a GFCI outlet handy. That way it's portable and safe where ever you brew... 240 volts? You are on your own.

Just a 2" TC clamp is like $8. The rest of it is a custom machined 2" TC to 1" NPSL adapter with oring groove cut. Then a custom 2" TC ferrule with back plated welded. Welded ground lug. Welded drop tube. There's about 10 linear inches of TIG welding involved in each unit. The fact that I can get these made for less than $40 my COST is a miracle already.
 
Sounds good, how would the cord and element be added? Is the element just screwed on? Does the cord have to be plugged in, stripped and uses screw terminals? Soldered?

I haven't built a heat stick before so bear with me.
 
I bought the prototype that was pictured prominently in this thread. I added the following: a 5500 watt element from home depot, some yellow teflon tape, and a decent, left-over extension cord. I run it on 120v and control it with an SSR attached to a PID. I used the included wire rings and the silicon o-ring to assemble the thing; you need to cut the female end off your cord and attach the wires to the element and the lug welded to the heat stick. With 120v, the skills required are the same as those needed to wire an outlet or light switch.

Overall, It is an awesome, hefty piece of equipment. The element is just screwed in with some teflon tape and the included silicon o-ring. Once it is together, you ought not need to disassemble it.

I feel like it should be stored in a custom music instrument case... it is so shiny and hefty.
 
nutty_gnome said:
I bought the prototype that was pictured prominently in this thread. I added the following: a 5500 watt element from home depot, some yellow teflon tape, and a decent, left-over extension cord. I run it on 120v and control it with an SSR attached to a PID.
Click to expand...

Earlier Bobby said, "For 120v, the max element you'd use is 2000w and the wire would be #12 gauge which only requires 1/2" OD downtube and 1/2" NPT threads on the top cord grip."

I know nothing about watts, but is running a 5500 watt element with 120v under powered if the max recommended is 2000? If this is a stupid question I am sorry, I really do not know.
 
Running a 5500 watt/240v element on 120v gives you 1375 watts which may or may not be underpowered depending on what your goals are. If it's just a stove top heat supplement, it's not bad. The challenge with 2000 watts is that it's really hard to find a ULWD element at that wattage and then you also need a dedicated 20 amp circuit for it.
 
The ferrule used seems kinda long. Is all that space used? Really starts to limit which ULWD elements can be used on 240v.

You could put the ground lug at the top, then you wouldn't need all 3 wires plus rtd going to the bottom. I wonder.. Does the heat from the element travel faster through the metal than the wort and thus creating a bad temp reading on the probe?
 
WI_Wino said:
For what's it worth, I think there could be value in having a heat stick you can grow into. I.e. have a single product that would work for both 120V and 240V applications. And if there's only one model, is there a price break due to more volume?
Click to expand...


I agree with WI_Wino - grow into factor is a nice consideration especially if the price difference is negligible.


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grathan said:
The ferrule used seems kinda long. Is all that space used? Really starts to limit which ULWD elements can be used on 240v.

You could put the ground lug at the top, then you wouldn't need all 3 wires plus rtd going to the bottom. I wonder.. Does the heat from the element travel faster through the metal than the wort and thus creating a bad temp reading on the probe?
Click to expand...

The ferrule on the sample units were a little longer than necessary. They are being shortened.

I thought about grounding at the top but it will make for a much more bulky "box" at the top unless I was willing to settle for an unsightly external ground lug. Right now, a 5/8" OD downtube is plenty large enough for three 10 gauge conductors. Going smaller than that would make it feel a bit flimsy I think.

I just ordered some bare thermocouples to mess around with ways to pressure fit it against the inside of the enclosure. As long as it doesn't sit very close to the element side, I'm confident it will represent the liquid temp quite well. The other option I considered is crimping the junction into a ring terminal that gets piggy backed onto the ground lug. I'm less confident in the speed of this reading, but I may be pleasantly surprised.

I think getting the TC/RTD integrated in some way is pretty important if one of the benefits of a loose heat stick is the ability to move it from vessel to vessel easily. That's not to say you can't install a probe in the sidewall of your pot, but it's less cool.
 
Bobby_M said:
I think getting the TC/RTD integrated in some way is pretty important if one of the benefits of a loose heat stick is the ability to move it from vessel to vessel easily. That's not to say you can't install a probe in the sidewall of your pot, but it's less cool.
Click to expand...


I agree - and it would be totally unique for this type of device. I like the idea of it being fully integrated inside the housing - way more streamlined than an external thermowell like I was talking about in my PM to you. However, how interchangeable with different temp controllers would this be?



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Carlscan26 said:
I agree - and it would be totally unique for this type of device. I like the idea of it being fully integrated inside the housing - way more streamlined than an external thermowell like I was talking about in my PM to you. However, how interchangeable with different temp controllers would this be?



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Click to expand...


You can get any type of probe that we as homebrewers normally use as a simple chip for a couple dollars. Sometimes in 10-20 packs for not much more than a couple dollars. But for use with the types of sensors most people already have at least a short thermowell might be a better selling point. I'd love to have one integrated into the housing like bobby talked about, but if someone is planning on using something they already have like the Dallas temp sensors a thermowell seems like a better deal. But if your brewery is like mine and uses the pt-100 probes, most of them are already welded in so I'd be looking for a new temp probe to use with it. Both options seem to have their merit.
 
Bobby_M said:
The ferrule on the sample units were a little longer than necessary. They are being shortened.

I thought about grounding at the top but it will make for a much more bulky "box" at the top unless I was willing to settle for an unsightly external ground lug. Right now, a 5/8" OD downtube is plenty large enough for three 10 gauge conductors. Going smaller than that would make it feel a bit flimsy I think.

I just ordered some bare thermocouples to mess around with ways to pressure fit it against the inside of the enclosure. As long as it doesn't sit very close to the element side, I'm confident it will represent the liquid temp quite well. The other option I considered is crimping the junction into a ring terminal that gets piggy backed onto the ground lug. I'm less confident in the speed of this reading, but I may be pleasantly surprised.

I think getting the TC/RTD integrated in some way is pretty important if one of the benefits of a loose heat stick is the ability to move it from vessel to vessel easily. That's not to say you can't install a probe in the sidewall of your pot, but it's less cool.
Click to expand...

I just use something like this:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=296

Personally I'd rather a heatstick be cheap and simple.

How is the connection for the temp sensor integrated?
 
Just to be sure there's no confusion, I'm not necessarily talking about including a thermocouple in the kit, but rather providing for a way to hold a bare junction to the inside wall of the housing. For example, take this http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=144

If I use a short piece of 1/8" ID stainless tubing and spot weld the end of the tube to the enclosure side wall, you can get that bare TC and shove the junction into the tube and crush it down a bit to hold it in place. Boom, now your heat stick has a sensor on board.

I wouldn't do it if it added significant cost to all units because I know there will be folks that just plug their stick in and use no controller. However, having a way to put the sensor inside the stick for those users who want PID or even simple Ranco/Johnson controls, it makes it really easy.

One thing that occurred to me though is now that the plan is to have the individually insulated conductors going down the drop tube, there will be space in the drop tube for capsulized thermocouples and RTDs and you can push them down to the bottom of the drop tube and it will likely stay put due to friction fit. The walls of the tube are only 1mm thick so heat transfer should be close enough. I need to do some testing though and I haven't put a 30amp breaker into the shop panel just yet.
 
On a lighter note… I received my hopback today. Can't wait to try it out!
 
Bobby. Reading the instructions, it says that the bottom port is the inlet and the top port out. For some reason I feel that it would work better reversed. Using it like a mash tun with a false bottom. Since hops flowers (and the pollen) float I imagine if it just a tad under filled then the bottom will be knocking around from the torrential flow of wort. Also top to bottom flow might be a better option for someone using gravity instead of a pump. But I guess I'll have to use it to find out. I see that perhaps a longer bolt will be needed for the adjustable top. Since using it as is it doesn't allow any adjustability since the filter is already at the same height as the port in the configuration it was shipped. I can gain almost another quarter inch by removing one of the sandwich nuts, but if I decided that I wanted to use as little as 1/4 oz of hops there would be quite a bit of empty space left that a slightly longer bolt could address. It might even be a better idea to have the bolt go all the way down and press against the bottom filter to keep it from being able to slide around if a person decided to use it in a horizontal orientation (i could see the potential for the bottom screen to tilt over in this configuration). I love how compact it is though. It shouldn't add a whole lot of extra weight to my rig.
 
You can definitely flow it in reverse but my thinking was more about purging air out without having to add a little purge valve to the cap. I did have intentions to include a longer bolt for the top cap/filter but those were the ones I had on hand. I believe those are 30mm long (M8) but maybe a 60mm would be better. Ideal flow direction is one of those things I'd like to hear about after a few people brew.. Try it either way.
 
Bobby, if you have anymore prototypes of the hopback I would be happy to give a few test batches and some feedback. Thanks.
 
Sorry for the silence, I have one in 1/2" FNPT, one in 1" TC, and two more in camlock up for grabs. Cank, one of these is yours. Komocabo also gets one.. If anyone else PM'd me and didn't get instructions to get yours, please let me know. There was a flurry of activity when I first put them up.
 
Heat Stick stuff:

The hopback is called Hop Bomb Jr with a little hop logo. I need a name for the heat stick which will go over a little lightning bolt graphic. Here's the deal. Throw out some name idea and if we end up using yours, you get the very first one for free and we'll even pay the shipping.
 
Stick nothing about heat stick, and emails and PMs from July haven't been responded too. Frustrating when there's demand for a product and no response!
 
dougp said:
Stick nothing about heat stick, and emails and PMs from July haven't been responded too. Frustrating when there's demand for a product and no response!
Click to expand...

Doug, I went looking and did find your email asking about the heat stick. I don't ignore emails for any reason but I do miss a few. Even today, I don't have a solid ETA on the heat stick but if I had to take a guess, I'd be shipping end of October.
 
Bobby_M said:
Doug, I went looking and did find your email asking about the heat stick. I don't ignore emails for any reason but I do miss a few. Even today, I don't have a solid ETA on the heat stick but if I had to take a guess, I'd be shipping end of October.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

As for names:

Calefaction Rod
Fever of Love Stick
 
Love the name Fever if Love stick. BUT... Google that and see how quick you clear your browser history- hahaha.
Seriously, that is a great name for a heat stick
 
Bobby_M said:
Doug, I went looking and did find your email asking about the heat stick. I don't ignore emails for any reason but I do miss a few. Even today, I don't have a solid ETA on the heat stick but if I had to take a guess, I'd be shipping end of October.
Click to expand...

Looking forward to it!
 
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