propane solenoid valve help?

[Anthony_Lopez]

I don't believe the H15 valves are meant for high pressure. It seems the H19 Valves are VERY difficult to find unless you wanna pay 100+. I'm trying to decide what I'm going to do now...

 

[JSomps6]

Been researching on this thread and had a question... I've got 3/4" black pipe feed two burners. So the tee that comes off for the HLT is 3/4" so I was thinking of getting this valve:

STC 2 way N.C. 3/4" solenoid valve air or water - eBay (item 300314500663 end time Sep-08-09 18:48:51 PDT)

But the propane line that will feed the burner from the other side of the valve appears to be 1/2 or 5/8. (I bought this system used and it was missing a few parts) Does it matter if I get 3/4 or 1/2 valve? I can just reduce it down before or after the valve and it will have no effect on the burner? Thanks!

 

[l3lackEyedAngels]

Has anyone experienced fire getting inside of the solenoid valve? That's what seems to be happening on my company's product, which, unfortunately, isn't beer related, although it is solenoid valve and propane related. Without going into too much detail, my company's product is like a potato gun, so there's no pilot light. Would a check valve work to prevent fire from creeping back into the solenoid valve body? Could the solenoid potentially ignite any propane and air that might be trapped in the body? I realize that I could be getting off topic here, but hopefully the answers to these questions are relevant to the thread.

 

[kladue]

A check valve is one approach to keeping the fire out, what size, pressure, fuel/air ratio are we talking about here. If it is high pressure a check valve is needed, if low pressure then a flame arrester downstream of the solenoid will keep ignition from transfering upstream to the solenoid body. Is this a rapidly repeated process or an occasional process?, heat buildup on a flame arresting devices might be a problem if it cycles rapidly.

 

[l3lackEyedAngels]

A check valve is one approach to keeping the fire out, what size, pressure, fuel/air ratio are we talking about here. If it is high pressure a check valve is needed, if low pressure then a flame arrester downstream of the solenoid will keep ignition from transfering upstream to the solenoid body. Is this a rapidly repeated process or an occasional process?, heat buildup on a flame arresting devices might be a problem if it cycles rapidly.

It's a low pressure process that repeats about twice a minute: a propane and oxygen mixture passes through the open valve, a check valve, a length of tube, and then another check valve, into a combustion chamber. The valve then closes and a spark plug in the chamber ignites the mixture. The valve opens again but this time shop air passes through to purge the system followed by the propane-oxygen mix, beginning the process again.

We've had a couple incidents in the field of the solenoid valve burning out. That is, the seals in the valve body are disintegrated, covering everything in there with soot. I will look into flame arresting devices, but I'm really curious to know if any one has experienced similar solenoid valve failures while working with flammable stuff like propane.

 

[kladue]

Sounds like an interesting process but valving mixed fuel/air is going to lead to the kind of problems you have. A flame arrester downstream of the mixed gas solenoid should keep combustion from happening in solenoid body. A different approach would be to seperate fuel and oxidizers and inject them into the mixing/delivery tube. If you want it simple then continous purge with air and inject measured amount of gas for combution events, with fuel only in fuel solenoid it will not ignite in body.

 

[Eigenbrau]

DISCLAIMER : I am an not a gas expert. I am not an electrician. I make no claims of a fail safe setup. Build and Use as your own risk !

The burner is really irrelevant. I used the Banjo/Hurricane but any burner will work fine. Just position the pilot light to be directed over an orifice or two so the incoming gas gets lit right away so as to avoid a build up and flash ignition.

As far as the pilot assembly, alot of these are homemade which is fine as long as you position your safety valve thermocouple directly in the flame for safety. I used a Honeywell assembly that had the pilot orifice and thermocouple housing all in one. The thermocouples are usually sold separately.

These appear to be the part numbers everyone is PMing me about so Ill put them here, but really it doesn't matter. There are several varieties available.

Pilot Thermocouple - Honeywell Q340A1108
Pilot Burner - Honeywell Q314A4586
Solenoid Valve - STC 2W160-10
Pilot Safety Valve - BASO H19AL-1

My valves are 3/8". If you are using or want 1/2" the part numbers are slightly different.

So I take it by looking at your solenoid that you're running low pressure LP? I've been doing some research on automating the HERMS process and this is the best setup I've seen. Originally I wanted to go with high pressure (~20 PSI) but it appears that if I wish to fully automate in the future, low pressure will be more cost effective as far as the solenoids/valves are concerned.

I know you've said the burners are irrelevant, but which ones are you running? I was looking into the 10" hurricane burners and running the system at 11" WC, which should allow the solenoid to function properly.

The other question I had was whether you've placed a regulator on the pilot supply or if this is unnecessary due to the low pressure nature of the system.

 

[kladue]

The honeywell standing pilot furnace valves are the least expensive method for low pressure burner automation. The furnace valve, pilot burner and thermocouple should be under $80 combined, gas orifice for banjo or hurricane just needs to be drilled out to 3/32" opening size for 11" wc propane.

 

[Eigenbrau]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I'll have to find a tutorial on drilling out the gas orifice, but it looks like the furnace valves will be what I go with. One last question: most of the valves I've seen run on 24V, which will be no problem with a step down transformer. My question is, are there any compatibility issues with the Love controllers or are you guys just running the 24V through the relay on them?

 

[jstaylor1968]

I just started my Brutus design. Was wondering if anyone has ever used these burners in the system.

http://www.brew-magic.com/ketl_acc_burner.html

Feedback appreciated.

Hoping to take off the supplied low pressure connects and just use one after they are all hooked into a main pipe.

 

[kladue]

Look here for reasonably priced cast burners http://www.agrisupply.com/burners-regulators/c/5400001/c2c/sc/, as CAT22 has stated in the past, 6" burner for the mash, and the larger burners for the HLT and boil where you need more fire.