Propane is a pain

[FoulMouth]

I have just gotten a 15 gallon brew pot and i am noticing i could be going through a rhino tank in one brew this adds $20 to the cost of brewing. Is this correct the water was about 45 degrees and took 3.5 hours before coming within 10 degrees of boiling. Bayou says with 3lbs of propane at 30,000 btus it could last 9.1 hours and with 55,000 about 3-4 hours. So with sparge and wert boil i can go through a tank maybe two. So is going electric really the best option to cut costs?

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Yes.

Things are SOOO much simpler with electric brewing. No heat plume to fry the hair off your arms and your eyebrows. No carbon monoxide. It is MUCH harder to set the garage on fire. And...it's cheaper.

 

[hamiltont]

That's crazy. I usually get at least three 10 gallon batches of beer out of a 20 lb. tank. I prepare the strike & sparge water the night before so they're at room temp to start. My burner is rated at 170K btu. You might want to check your air adjustment. I found that mine works best when allowing the least amount of air. If it sounds like a jet then you're probably bringing in too much air and the flame won't be efficient. You want a blue flame with just a hint of orange at the tip. Cheers!!!

 

[FoulMouth]

That's crazy. I usually get at least three 10 gallon batches of beer out of a 20 lb. tank. I prepare the strike & sparge water the night before so they're at room temp to start. My burner is rated at 170K btu. You might want to check your air adjustment. I found that mine works best when allowing the least amount of air. If it sounds like a jet then you're probably bringing in too much air and the flame won't be efficient. You want a blue flame with just a hint of orange at the tip. Cheers!!!

How long does it take to get to a boil. It took me 1.5 to get to 170 then 2 + hours to get to a boil. This again was at 45 degrees so room temp at at least 60+ would save about an hour i guess.

 

[Sippin37]

Yeah this is why it is nice to invest in the Blichmann Burner, gets you up to a boil quickly and won't waste your propane as fast as other burners.

http://www.blichmannengineering.com/brew_stand/brewstand_modular.html

 

[jeremyh]

With a three-burner system, 15 gallon kettles, that includes a 60 min mash, 40-60 min sparge, and up to a 90-min boil, we may go through half of a standard Rhino tank. YMMV, but I always keep one on standby just in case. It does seem that once we stepped up to all grain, our propane consumption increased quite a bit. That said, is natural gas an option?

Heating 15 gal with electric may consume quite a bit of watts ($$) and take longer. I don't have much experience here...just a hunch.

 

[FoulMouth]

With a three-burner system, 15 gallon kettles, that includes a 60 min mash, 40-60 min sparge, and up to a 90-min boil, we may go through half of a standard Rhino tank. YMMV, but I always keep one on standby just in case. It does seem that once we stepped up to all grain, our propane consumption increased quite a bit. That said, is natural gas an option?

Heating 15 gal with electric may consume quite a bit of watts ($$) and take longer. I don't have much experience here...just a hunch.

Electric from what i read can cost only $1.20 to make a batch depending on your kwh cost. The equipment is the main cost.

 

[nicadrick]

Fill your kettle with room temp water. That even works when you are running through a charcoal filter.

I can get 13 gallons of 40F water to strike temp in 35 minutes with either a BG-10 or BG-12.

I always heat extra for cleanup water. I easily get 3 brews from a 20lb cylinder.

Cheers

 

[hamiltont]

How long does it take to get to a boil. It took me 1.5 to get to 170 then 2 + hours to get to a boil. This again was at 45 degrees so room temp at at least 60+ would save about an hour i guess.

Holy Cow!! From room temp I'm usually at 170F mash-in in about 45 minutes and from ~148F wort to boil in about 30 minutes. Can you convert your burner with something like this? 170,000 btu burner. Is your current burner high or low pressure?

 

[Golddiggie]

Yeah this is why it is nice to invest in the Blichmann Burner, gets you up to a boil quickly and won't waste your propane as fast as other burners.

http://www.blichmannengineering.com/brew_stand/brewstand_modular.html

Exactly. I changed over to a pair of Blichman burners and have been using the same two tanks (one on each) for several batches now. I expect to get at least one more before I need to get either refilled. I might get a spare so that iI don't need to worry about one running out during a session.

BTW, where the tank on the Bayou burner would get frost on it during use, the tank on either Blifhmann doesn't. Plus I actually get up to a boil faster. Both make burners use an element that appears identical.

 

[H-ost]

Relax everyone.

I had this same issue when I first started brewing 10 gallons and I also use the Bayou Classic SQ-14. The solution is to turn the sucker up! It took my 4 hours to get a boil the first time I brewed with it, then I got a little less whimpy with the flame and it took me about 2 hours the next time. Now I'm down to about 45min to get ~13 gallons to a boil. I also get at least 2 brews out of a tank but I don't have a backup so I always fill it before the third use.

 

[Polboy]

thats why i love my NG system, 2x 23jets burners after plumbing and modifications cost me around $100 and they deliver enough btus to brew 10gal batches very comfortably (in time to grind my grain strike water is getting around 150F usually)

 

[Doed]

I have this and can get three 5 gallon batches out of a tank. The tank does get cold, never noticed frost though.

Check your flame like hamiltont said above. Mine takes 30 - 40 minutes to heat from 60* to 160*

 

[GulfCoastGirl]

Can you microwave a few gallons in big glass bowls in the microwave to get started with hotter water? I do this when I'm filling big pots to boil water to kill the fire ant hills.... the water takes much less time to boil when I start it in the microwave first.


I'm new to brewing so forgive me if that was a stupid suggestion

 

[TomSD]

I only do five gallon boils and it wasn't too bad with my old bayou, can't imagine what it would've been like with ten though. I do love the way the Blichmann burner heats up water though.

 

[SirBrewsAlot]

What I do is heat my strike water in a in a two smaller pots on the stove. I do the same for my sparge water to conserve my propane. I only use my propane for my 60 min boil for my big pot. You can also start your 60 min boil after your first runnings if doing AG to heat the wort up quicker, rather than all at once.

 

[passedpawn]

Heating 15 gal with electric may consume quite a bit of watts ($$) and take longer. I don't have much experience here...just a hunch.

Electric doesn't take longer (if you do it right). I'm not going to go into the list of advantages (and a couple of minor disadvantages, that's been done to death). But here's the math for my 240vac system, assuming $0.10 per kwh. I think I got it right... let me know if I made a mistake or left something out.

Strike water

6 gallons
70F->160F = 15 minutes (0.25h)
100% duty cycle
5.500kW * 0.25h * 100% = 1.38kWh

​

Sparge water

10 gallons
70F->180F = 30 minutes (0.5h)
100% duty cycle
5.5kW * 0.5h * 100% = 2.75kWh​

Raise Wort to Boil

13 gallons
150F->212F = 20 minutes (0.33h)
100% duty cycle
5.5kW * 0.33h * 100% = 1.82kWh​

Rolling Boil

13 gallons
@ 212F = 60 minutes (1.0h)
60% duty cycle
5.5kW * 1.0h * 60% = 3.30kWh​

Total energy: (1.38+2.75+1.82+3.30) kWh = 9.25kWh
Total Cost: 9.25kWh * $0.10 /kWh = $0.92

 

[hamiltont]

Just curious what that electric setup cost you & how it's configed. I've thought about electric but the cost just seems way out there for me. Thanks!!!

Oh, I should mention I don't have any electrical experience so I'd have to go with a turn key system.

 

[passedpawn]

Oh, I should mention I don't have any electrical experience so I'd have to go with a turn key system.

Yea, that's going to be a problem for you. Off the shelf is pricey, and still won't get you all the way there.

I was looking to go bigger batches, and the cost of the burners was going to be $200. I didn't spend much more than that to build my control box and install elements in my keggles. Maybe $250.

 

[RJS]

I'm getting ten gallons to a boil in about 20 min. On low flame too, not sure why. I have an 18 tip jet burner but I figure it's standard, the flames are almost 2 inches across. Is that not common? On high the flames can reach out halfway up the pot. Also 3 to 4 batches a tank

 

[Jazman]

I suspect you're having an issue with keeping the heat under the kettle and possibly having the regulator up too high. I do 10gal batches and get about 4 batches out of a 20lb tank of propane.

My Bayou burner sits WAY below the bottom of the kettle and heat just wafts away. Also, there's only so much heat you're going to transfer so turning the gas up doesn't create more heat. The burner is the same one that's in the Blichmann and if you look at pics of it, there is a wind shield around the burner below the kettle (the burner is also closer which is not really possible with a Bayou burner and stand).

So, I got some sheet metal and fashioned a wind screen. Once the burner is lit, I turn it up to just where the flames "jump" and then turn it back just a hair. This amounts to only around 1 1/2 turns on my regular valve. I'll get 12.5 gallons from 140 to boiling in 30 mins or so.

Best of luck,
Jaz

 

[hamiltont]

Yea, that's going to be a problem for you. Off the shelf is pricey, and still won't get you all the way there.

I was looking to go bigger batches, and the cost of the burners was going to be $200. I didn't spend much more than that to build my control box and install elements in my keggles. Maybe $250.

my control box is way over my head. I'm probably stuck with gas & a match.

 

[evwoller]

Fun fact, keeping your propane tank in a bucket that has luke warm water helps to keep pressures even.

I have a small metal forge that likes to eat up the gas. When your tank is getting iced your pressure is severely effected.

 

[Fennis]

Wow, I don't know how you go through so much propane. I've gone through 2 brew in a bag batches with my 40qt pot, plus an initial paint burnoff and 15 minute boil on the new aluminum pot when I bought the whole setup, and this was a 20lb tank I used in the second half of the summer, at least 2-3 times a week to cook dinner on the grill, and I have a feeling I still could get another batch out of the tank--I'll find out tomorrow when I brew my next batch, but there is plenty of weight left to the tank. So one 20lb tank would probably get me 4-5 batches easily which is ideally $3-$4 worth of propane per batch based on the cost of refilling the tank which I get done at some RV place nearby that refills over switching out tanks.

 

[2BeerSpeer]

Exactly. I changed over to a pair of Blichman burners and have been using the same two tanks (one on each) for several batches now. I expect to get at least one more before I need to get either refilled. I might get a spare so that iI don't need to worry about one running out during a session.

BTW, where the tank on the Bayou burner would get frost on it during use, the tank on either Blifhmann doesn't. Plus I actually get up to a boil faster. Both make burners use an element that appears identical.

so you went from bayou to blichman?

 

[passedpawn]

Wow, I don't know how you go through so much propane. I've gone through 2 brew in a bag batches with my 40qt pot, plus an initial paint burnoff and 15 minute boil on the new aluminum pot when I bought the whole setup, and this was a 20lb tank I used in the second half of the summer, at least 2-3 times a week to cook dinner on the grill, and I have a feeling I still could get another batch out of the tank--I'll find out tomorrow when I brew my next batch, but there is plenty of weight left to the tank. So one 20lb tank would probably get me 4-5 batches easily which is ideally $3-$4 worth of propane per batch based on the cost of refilling the tank which I get done at some RV place nearby that refills over switching out tanks.

Gas usage is dependent on how efficiently the heat gets into the wort. Simple things like wind and pot shape can have a profound effect. Although I'm not a flame expert, I believe adjusting your air/gas ratio to get the perfect flame (blue? yellow?) also can have an effect on efficiency.

 

[Golddiggie]

so you went from bayou to blichman?

Yup... Now the KAB4 is sitting in the corner, feeling unused (which it is)... I might have a buyer for it though (local) so it could be getting some attention soon.

I had the KAB4 adjusted to burn properly, same as with the Blichmann. The Blichmann burner produces smaller flame jets but gets the wort up to a boil faster. I also get the mash strike water up to temperature faster. I can also get 8+ gallons of wort to a boil faster than my brew-buddy can get ~7 gallons of wort to a boil with his Bayou burner (square stand, smaller burner element, not sure which model). I've been using my 10 gallon BoilerMaker kettle so far. Batch after this weekend I'll be using my new keggle... Will see how it gets about 10 gallons up to a boil then. :rockin:

 

[FoulMouth]

Midwest has a hand held heater for about 170 it's about 2200 watts which will be ok but 4500 to 5500 is best some say 3500 for the BK to prevent scorching.

 

[starrfish]

I have a bayou classic square-14, and a wind screen helps a lot. (on my second aluminum turkey pan wind screen in 4 batches, looking for the bulk store coffee can, or other large can that is more durable.

Also I crank up heat as I start to run from mash tun, seems to get to a boil faster since heat is applied as brew pot is filling.

Air ratio adjustment is fussy on the bayou classic 14, but when you find the sweet spot you'll know. I do 6.5 to 7 gallon boils for a 5.5-6 gallon to fermenter.

I can get almost 3 batches out of a standard tank refilled locally (ace hardware, but an exchange off the shelf will usually not make it through the third batch... known short fills)

 

[bgeek]

Don't forget to use your lid.