Propane burner: DIY or purchase?

[gx1400]

Found this as a top pick through homebrewfinds.com:

http://www.homebrewing.org/14-Propane-Burner--220000-BTU_p_1190.html?AffId=160

I just converted a Keggle and we brewed two weeks ago with a KAB4. Its a great burner but the top wasn't quite wide enough and the distance from burner to keg bottom was pretty bad.

I'm debating whether to spend $80 on a KAB4 and modifying it (lower the stand closer to the burner and widen the supports) or getting this one. Anyone have any experience with this burner?

 

[carlisle_bob]

Hi

220,000 BTU is *way* more energy than you would ever need for a keggle. If the burner really puts out that much energy, plan on burning anything you put on it....

Indeed most burners are rated by some strange math known only to advertising people. Any burner that really puts out 50,000 BTU is plenty big enough for any realistic home brewing situation.

Bob

 

[gx1400]

Until I buy a house and have space, or my buddy builds an electrically fired HLT, we've been using the keggle for strike and mash water for the HLT and MTL, bringing 2 batches of 8-9 gallons of water to 170 deg water sucks.

 

[carlisle_bob]

Until I buy a house and have space, or my buddy builds an electrically fired HLT, we've been using the keggle for strike and mash water for the HLT and MTL, bringing 2 batches of 8-9 gallons of water to 170 deg water sucks.

Hi

If that burner really puts out 220,000 BTU's it'll get 9 gallons of water up to 170F in no time...

The math:

9 gallons is 72 lb of water. A BTU heats one pound one degree. A 100 F change needs 7,200 BTU's. The burner would do it in less than two minutes. That's all *if* it puts out that much energy, which obviously it does not.

Bob

 

[theonetrueruss]

With those calculations the 50,000 BTU burner should raise it 100F in less than 9 minutes. That is not going to happen.

This is because the rate at which your water temp will rise is dependent on how much total energy is added to the water, not just how much comes out of the burner. This means you need to account for the efficiency of heat transfer from your burner to the water- this will be a fairly low efficiency in a standard burner setup.

This will be dependent on lots of factors like the shape and material of your kettle, the atmospheric temperature and humidity may come into effect (to what degree I am not sure though it should affect the thermal conductivity of the air). There are probably other factors I am leaving out.

Now if you could get 100% heat transfer with no other losses... those calculations would be right on the money.

So no you will not heat water in 2 minutes with a 200,000 btu burner even if it did put out the rated heat.


This burner is the one I have and is rated at 200,000 BTU http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-KAB4-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B0009JXYQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339089754&sr=8-1

The part about it I like a lot is that larger volumes are handled well and it is far quieter than the jet burners. You can run it fairly low and get a good boil without the loud sound. You don't really use all 200,000 BTUs

And no, it does not melt my kettle.. though I have a thick bottomed kettle.

Of course.. it is also likely that the BTU ratings are measured at full pressure, maximum output. This is not how you will be running it and will not get the 200,000 btu max.

I know I am not burning through propane at a rate that would give 220,000btus... propane gives about 15,000btu per pound... I would burn through nearly 15lbs in an hour at that rate. Since I can run for about 4 hours at the rate I burn with about 15 lbs of propane I figure I am putting out about an average 55,000 btu at the level I burn. Some of the time probably a good bit less and some of the time a good bit more.

So the end game is that a 50,000 BTU burner is technically plenty.

 

[carlisle_bob]

There are a couple of fudge factors. Any burner rating *assumes* you re-condense all the water vapor that is generated during the burn. Real burners don't do this. Figure about 15% for "lost steam".

The burner does toss heat in all directions. Most of it goes straight up in a normal burner. Again another maybe 20% depending on how well things are baffled.

The bigger impact is from the fact that your kettle cools off just sitting there. You need to dump in energy to overcome the self cooling. Simple to work that one out. Dump a bunch of 170F water in your kettle and measure how many minutes it takes to get to 120F. A guy named Newton came up with some math to work out the energy you are loosing. Simple answer, it would need to cool down in under ~ 10 minutes to impact the "2 minute heat up" in any significant way.

Net result, yes two minutes is really more like three or at most four. The real point is that indeed the burner puts out about 1/4 it's rated energy.

Bob

 

[theonetrueruss]

in practical terms sure... Guess I just really like how quiet my banjo burner is. Had a different one before that sounded like a jet engine.

 

[carlisle_bob]

in practical terms sure... Guess I just really like how quiet my banjo burner is. Had a different one before that sounded like a jet engine.

Hi

*Exactly* correct. There's no need for a jet engine. A nice quiet banjo burner puts out way more energy than you will ever need and they are pretty cheap.

Bob

 

[206JRO206]

All that being said, has anybody actually used or seen that homebrew 220,000 BTU burner? Just comparing prices and you can get an 18" homebrew 220,000 BTU for only $7 more than the 200,000BTU KAB4 theonetrueruss linked. The stand on the homebrew looks sturdier than the KAB4 so I'm just wondering if anyone has a hands on point of view. At only 10psi I can't imagine the homebrew burner being much louder than the 30psi KAB4. I'm looking into starting an all grain system and the homebrew 3 burner system looks like a good deal if using a pump set up. Has anyone made a cinderblock structure around your burner and say 1/3 up your kettle to improve heat loss and lower boil times?

 

[day_trippr]

So the original burner is clearly a gussied-up SP-10. Running at 220K I bet you'd need ear muffs...

Cheers!

 

[206JRO206]

Not to get down on you day_trippr but I'm lookin for someone with hands on experience with this burner rather than assumptions. I don't imagine one would run the burner at its maximum output. If anyone has any real experience handling this burner or even a video clip of one that would be awesome. There is enough Information/videos/opinions around about other burners so please don't keep posting negative feedback about this burner/what burner one should buy over this one unless you have some experience leading to your reasoning. I don't mean to come off *****ey, thanks for all the help.

 

[day_trippr]

No need to come off all *****y, the SP-10 is notorious for its loud voice putting out ~55K btu. The rest is just extrapolation...

Cheers!

 

[limulus]

I don't have experience with the burner that you linked, but I do have a bit of experience with the vendor. He is TOP NOTCH and I'll stand by that. I have purchased from him about 5 times this year and he usually ships w/in 24hrs and stands by what he sells.

For the record: As far as being "*****y" (*****ey)...I did not think you were being a ******. I've been brewing since the mid 1990s and I definitely don't know everything. But after looking at this again, I think day trippr may be correct about the sound.

 

[limulus]

One more thing: I bought one of these burners at HD back in 2009 and it is sturdy and powerful. It is not silent, but by no means loud.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CSTHPY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20