Project X DIPA

[Steve3730]

looking for some input on my first all grain. The recipe is based off Carton Brewing DIPA 077XX

Thanks for any input!

Recipe: Project X
Brewer: Steve
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.52 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 4.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 83.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Est. FG 1.013
Est ABV 8.1%

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 86.2 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.3 %
8.0 oz Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.4 %
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 15.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 4.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 8.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 10.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 5.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 10.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 12.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 3.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 5.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 6.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 17 -
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs

 

[m00ps]

10% Acid malt...interesting. I've never done more than 3-4% and its not too noticeable.

Personally, I'd shift all those 20 10 and 5 min hops stoward the end for a massive hopstand. I've started doing this with all ym IPAs and its fantastic. More hop character than I've ever tasted, but extreme drinkability to the point of like hop gatorade. I usually hopstand for 1 hour before chilling to get a large amount of flavor and aroma from the hops with very little bitterness contribution. Here's the latest hop bill on an IPA ive got going now

@60: 1 oz
@10: 2 oz
@0: 6 oz
@+30 min into hopstand: 6 oz
@dry: 2 oz
@2nddry: 2 oz
@keg: 1 oz (whole hops)

 

[dcbw]

That seems like a lot of acid malt to me...

Also I've found pure Pilsner malt to be a bit too sweet for an IPA, and it might not work as well here with only 15 IBUs worth of bittering hops. If I were brewing this I'd move the 20m hops to 60m to get something closer to 30 -40 IBU bittering. That might better balance the malts in a beer like this, especially with Pilsner.

 

[m00ps]

^ you know that its not just the 60min addition that adds bitterness to the beer right? Just because something isnt labeled as a "bittering" addition doesnt mean it doesnt impart bitterness. For insance, I've seen IPAs with no bittering addition that still has a decent amount of bitter character

 

[Steve3730]

The hop schedule hit right on 80 ibus consistent with 077xx. The grain I'm sure of it being heavy pilsner and some acidulated malt. Not sure of %s so kinda guessing here.

 

[Steve3730]

10% Acid malt...interesting. I've never done more than 3-4% and its not too noticeable.

Personally, I'd shift all those 20 10 and 5 min hops stoward the end for a massive hopstand. I've started doing this with all ym IPAs and its fantastic. More hop character than I've ever tasted, but extreme drinkability to the point of like hop gatorade. I usually hopstand for 1 hour before chilling to get a large amount of flavor and aroma from the hops with very little bitterness contribution. Here's the latest hop bill on an IPA ive got going now

@60: 1 oz
@10: 2 oz
@0: 6 oz
@+30 min into hopstand: 6 oz
@dry: 2 oz
@2nddry: 2 oz
@keg: 1 oz (whole hops)

I've never worked with acid malt before do you think 10% is too high? The brewer told me "mostly pilsen a rich of acidulated"

I've done hop stands before they are great but trying to clone 077xx with this one

 

[m00ps]

10% may be a bit high, but i've never had it actually sour the final beer. The 4oz I usually use doesnt give any detectable flavor. 10% may give it like a brett tartness. Ive never had the beer you are trying to emulate though

 

[Jonkl]

Given the light grains, maybe the acid malt is for mash pH adjustment, with maybe a little extra for just a hint of tartness to play with the sweet pilsner and the hops.

I'd do the math on the pH to figure out the acid malt addition. 10% seems high, but it might work.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I've never worked with acid malt before do you think 10% is too high? The brewer told me "mostly pilsen a rich of acidulated"

I've done hop stands before they are great but trying to clone 077xx with this one

Don't forget that acidulated malt will drop your mash pH quite a bit. With this grain bill, you likely do need *some* acid malt, but I wouldn't just throw in a random quantity without understanding where it's going to take your pH. A water spreadsheet like brunwater would be a simple way to figure this out.

FWIW, I start with RO water, and even with a light grain bill, I have never needed more than 6-8 oz of acid malt to achieve the pH I want (usually shooting for about 5.3)

 

[m00ps]

I keep things pretty unscientific with my brewing and mostly rely on gut instinct. Hell Ive never even measured the amount of water I end up putting into each batch. Surprisingly, I walys come within 4 points or so of my intended OG. If you dont want to get into mash pHs and stuff just yet, I'd scale it to 5% and just go for it.

 

[Steve3730]

I will be brewing with Chicago water which has a ph right around 8. What should i shoot for? Being my first all grain water chemistry is still something i need to learn

 

[JordanKnudson]

I will be brewing with Chicago water which has a ph right around 8. What should i shoot for? Being my first all grain water chemistry is still something i need to learn

A good range for mash pH is in the 5.2-5.4 range. As a fellow Chicagoan, let me tell you from experience -- treat your tap water with campden tablets. We have mad chloramines in our water that will ruin the final beer.

 

[joshesmusica]

I will be brewing with Chicago water which has a ph right around 8. What should i shoot for? Being my first all grain water chemistry is still something i need to learn

i would get your water report and post it on the water chemistry sub section. you will get an idea of things you need to know about it quickly from those highly intelligent guys like Martin, creator of the Bru'n Water spreadsheet.
What i've been doing is typing in my base grain bill and seeing what the pH ends up, then add the right amount of the acid malt to drop to the desired pH range. For the IPA i just brewed, i shot for 5.3 in the mash. But like the others said, if you don't wanna dive deep into the water chemistry stuff so early on in your brewing career, then just drop it down to about 5%, and that should be enough to get you going this time.

 

[Steve3730]

i would get your water report and post it on the water chemistry sub section. you will get an idea of things you need to know about it quickly from those highly intelligent guys like Martin, creator of the Bru'n Water spreadsheet.
What i've been doing is typing in my base grain bill and seeing what the pH ends up, then add the right amount of the acid malt to drop to the desired pH range. For the IPA i just brewed, i shot for 5.3 in the mash. But like the others said, if you don't wanna dive deep into the water chemistry stuff so early on in your brewing career, then just drop it down to about 5%, and that should be enough to get you going this time.

Thanks for all the info guys. I will likely drop it like you said and see how it comes out. I will monitor my PH results with this batch and adjust. This will probably be a recipe I do many version of to dial it in.

For those that haven't tried 077XX give it a try. I liked it over Pliny and Heady

 

[Steve3730]

A good range for mash pH is in the 5.2-5.4 range. As a fellow Chicagoan, let me tell you from experience -- treat your tap water with campden tablets. We have mad chloramines in our water that will ruin the final beer.

Really last couple batch I made I went straight from the tap with no much difference than bottled i been using. I spoke to members of my brew club and the majority went straight off the tap for anything they planned on boiling.

 

[JordanKnudson]

Really last couple batch I made I went straight from the tap with no much difference than bottled i been using. I spoke to members of my brew club and the majority went straight off the tap for anything they planned on boiling.

Interesting! I know the north and south sides have different water supplies, and maybe it also depends on the time of year, but I had several batches ruined early on in my brewing by chloramine. Chlorine boils off, but chloramine doesn't, and it ends up in the final beer.

If you're not having any problems with it, then brew on! I would say, though, that campden tablets are fantastically cheap and easy, and they provide insurance against a ruined batch (at least from those chemicals).

 

[Steve3730]

Interesting! I know the north and south sides have different water supplies, and maybe it also depends on the time of year, but I had several batches ruined early on in my brewing by chloramine. Chlorine boils off, but chloramine doesn't, and it ends up in the final beer.

If you're not having any problems with it, then brew on! I would say, though, that campden tablets are fantastically cheap and easy, and they provide insurance against a ruined batch (at least from those chemicals).

I agree definitely a better safe than sorry situation. I'll pick up some

 

[dcbw]

^ you know that its not just the 60min addition that adds bitterness to the beer right? Just because something isnt labeled as a "bittering" addition doesnt mean it doesnt impart bitterness. For insance, I've seen IPAs with no bittering addition that still has a decent amount of bitter character

Yeah, I know. But in my experience, I only get that IPA-type hop bitterness character with the early additions. Later ones (eg flavor or aroma though that's not quite true) seem a lot mellower and don't have the "punch" that I want an IPA to have. I've done hopbursting before and it tastes great, just not quite as bitter as I expect. Very drinkable though.

So maybe there's something wrong with my processes, and everyone is different, but I usually try to shoot for 60 to 80% of the GU in initial IBUs, the rest made up of 10m or less additions and whirlpooling/hop stand. That usually gives me enough punch but with a ton of flavor too. < 15m and whirlpooling never got me much bitterness, just great smooth flavor.

 

[TripleHopped]

Information from Weyermann Malts site has 1-5% acid malt to lower pH and 10% for sour styles. I would reduce the acid malt.

 

[tagz]

Do yourself a favor and invest a little time in figuring out pH. Grab your water report and the brun water spreadsheet. It's way less frustrating than dealing with an astringent batch. And, 5% or 9%, if your pH is off you will get tannin extraction. Part of all-grain is dealing with water chemistry. If you don't want to stress about it, stick to extract.

 

[Steve3730]

I will read up on water chem a little before my attempt and will probably do a low cost recipe that I've done before on the set up first and take notes before trying this pricey untested recipe