Problems With Dual 120V Input, Dual Element BIAB

[cmw6300]

First off, I feel comfortable doing electrical projects being that I have already added two new breakers to my houses panel and installed the associated wiring and two new 20A outlets in my garage. Having said that, I followed P-J's wiring diagram below and have run in to some problems.

I have the inputs from the two 20A outlets running in to two single 20A outlets in the back of my control box. The power then runs through the box and out to two 20A Twistloks on the back of the control box.

The first time I powered my controller up, the resistors I had wired up started to smoke. I have since replaced the resistors and I seem to be past that problem. Also, the first time I powered it up I didn't have the elements plugged in. I'm not sure if that is a problem or not. When I pushed the push button for the PID power the PID powered on. When I pushed the push button for the element power, there was a quick little arc that I noticed. Now when I push the push button for the element power the light doesn't come on. Also, when I apply power to the PID now and arbitrarily set a temp. on the PID, the SSR lights come on. I have no noise coming from my contactors either.

If anyone out there could help me out I would greatly appreciate it. I would even buy someone a beer!! I have been taking my time and working on this project for a few weeks now and really want to use this thing to brew some beer!!

Thanks in advance and sorry for the marathon post,
Chad

 

[jeffmeh]

I know it does not address your problem, but it would be much safer to use a flanged inlet for your power feeds into the box. As it is, you will have live male plugs. Not a great idea.

 

[russki]

I used this exact diagram for my build, and had no issues. Just a thought - are both contact blocks in your e-stop NO? I think Auberins e-stop ships with one NO and one NC - that would certainly cause a problem you are describing.

 

[cmw6300]

I used this exact diagram for my build, and had no issues. Just a thought - are both contact blocks in your e-stop NO? I think Auberins e-stop ships with one NO and one NC - that would certainly cause a problem you are describing.

No, one is NO, the other is NC.

 

[cmw6300]

I know it does not address your problem, but it would be much safer to use a flanged inlet for your power feeds into the box. As it is, you will have live male plugs. Not a great idea.

I understand the concern but I plug the leads in to the box then in to the wall oulets so there is no stray electricity floating around.

 

[P-J]

I understand the concern but I plug the leads in to the box then in to the wall oulets so there is no stray electricity floating around.

Very bad idea. You are playing "You bet your life."!

 

[cmw6300]

Very bad idea. You are playing "You bet your life."!

Dually noted, I will look in to changing this.

 

[P-J]

No, one is NO, the other is NC.

That is a major issue. The E-Stop, as it is set up, must have 2 N/O contact blocks for it to function properly. The panel will not operate properly otherwise.

 

[russki]

That is a major issue. The E-Stop, as it is set up, must have 2 N/O contact blocks for it to function properly. The panel will not operate properly otherwise.

Yep, you basically have a short in you e-stop now.

 

[cmw6300]

That is a major issue. The E-Stop, as it is set up, must have 2 N/O contact blocks for it to function properly. The panel will not operate properly otherwise.

Dang it, well that stinks. When I bought the switch I don't think I could specify what I wanted. Looks like I will order a new E-Stop and two new push-buttons.

 

[P-J]

Dang it, well that stinks. When I bought the switch I don't think I could specify what I wanted. Looks like I will order a new E-Stop and two new push-buttons.

The E-Stop from Auber Instruments comes with a N/O and a N/C switch module. You need to order an additional N/O switch module and replace the N/C module in the switch. You might call Auber and see if they can accomodate your needs by supplying it with 2 N/O modules.

It's worth a try.

 

[cmw6300]

The E-Stop from Auber Instruments comes with a N/O and a N/C switch module. You need to order an additional N/O switch module and replace the N/C module in the switch. You might call Auber and see if they can accomodate your needs by supplying it with 2 N/O modules.

It's worth a try.

Do you think I should order a whole new E-Stop switch and the two blocks? Would I have hurt anything in the switch by having it wired up per your schematic with one each NO and NC?

 

[P-J]

The mechanical mechanism of the switch most likely will be Ok. You could just order 2 N/O modules and try it out.

 

[cmw6300]

Hey russki, could you take a picture of your wiring for me? I'm thinking I may have my contactors wired incorrectly. I'm assuming that the coil in the diagram is the little block off to the side on the contactor without the screw lugs? Correct? What I have done is made a short jumper wire from that to one of the spades on the screw lugs. I then have a wire going from another of the spades on the screw lugs up to X2 of the pushbutton switch. When I blew my pushbutton switch last time it was scorched on the X2 and lug 24 side. I'm kind of at a loss as to what could be the problem other than I'm getting too much power to my element pushbuttons for some reason. The only thing I can see is that my hot leads are not fused going to my element pushbuttons like on the main PID pushbutton.

 

[russki]

Hey russki, could you take a picture of your wiring for me? I'm thinking I may have my contactors wired incorrectly. I'm assuming that the coil in the diagram is the little block off to the side on the contactor without the screw lugs? Correct? What I have done is made a short jumper wire from that to one of the spades on the screw lugs. I then have a wire going from another of the spades on the screw lugs up to X2 of the pushbutton switch. When I blew my pushbutton switch last time it was scorched on the X2 and lug 24 side. I'm kind of at a loss as to what could be the problem other than I'm getting too much power to my element pushbuttons for some reason. The only thing I can see is that my hot leads are not fused going to my element pushbuttons like on the main PID pushbutton.

You are correct in that the side spade terminals are for the contactor coil, however, you do not want to connect the hot wire coming to these to the load terminals (lugs). What you need to do is run the hot wire from the pushbutton (screw 24) to one side of the coil, and neutral (which can be jumped from the contactor's neutral lug, or your neutral bus) to the other side of the coil.

Does this make sense? I have a photo of my panel's wiring, but it's so tight, you can't really see where things go.

 

[cmw6300]

Thanks russki, I actually have gone back and printed out some pictures of your wiring and have found the error in my ways. I have also been able to find a diagram from our very own P-J that gives me more of a simple diagram of the contactor wiring. I was scratching my head for quite some time being that all my other wiring is exactly like yours and the other pictures that I have been able to find save for the contactor. Also, one other quick question. I think I can see a ground wire going from the base of your contactor. I'm assuming that since I am using a plastic box I should run a ground from the bases of my contactors and even the bases of my heatsinks to a ground? Thanks to you and P-J for all of your help on this, hopefully I can have this thing up and brewing this weekend!

Thanks guys,
Chad

 

[russki]

Thanks russki, I actually have gone back and printed out some pictures of your wiring and have found the error in my ways. I have also been able to find a diagram from our very own P-J that gives me more of a simple diagram of the contactor wiring. I was scratching my head for quite some time being that all my other wiring is exactly like yours and the other pictures that I have been able to find save for the contactor. Also, one other quick question. I think I can see a ground wire going from the base of your contactor. I'm assuming that since I am using a plastic box I should run a ground from the bases of my contactors and even the bases of my heatsinks to a ground? Thanks to you and P-J for all of your help on this, hopefully I can have this thing up and brewing this weekend!

Thanks guys,
Chad

No, there are no ground connection to the contactors in my build; the only ground connections are for element and pump receptacles; they all go to the common "ground bolt" that is also connected to my GFCI outlets ground. Plastic or metal enclosure, I believe that's all that is needed. There's no harm grounding all elements, but in my opinion, it's overkill.

Good luck with getting your panel fixed!