Pro Brewery equipment research, help needed

[pcarey1222]

I am in the very early stages of putting together a business plan for a brewery and would like any help or direction as to where to begin researching the costs associated with the necessary equipment.

Any advice and links to sites would be great. If there are consultants out there then that could be helpful too.

I have visited probrewers in the past, but the prices for equipment seem to range dramatically. With the explosion of all of the breweries I would imagine that there are some businesses associated with creating more of a one-stop-shopping experience for up and coming breweries.

Thanks for the help!

 

[brewfun]

The Craft Brewer's Conference would've been the closest thing to what you're asking for. Unfortunately, it was last week.

Contact the Brewer's Association. They're going to have a few resources and books that you'll want, as you move along.

To be honest, the equipment and tanks to brew are not your most important expense, just the most visible. There are hundreds of really mundane, hidden costs that will be more important considerations. Many of these will have a large impact on how big the brewery can grow.

The first thing is to find a location and figure out whether the City and neighbors are going to make it easy or hard on you. Bureaucratic delays are inevitable, looking to clear them early pays off handsomely in the form of lower blood pressure and saved money.

 

[BentBrewer]

This is a massively, hugely, open-ended question. Are you going to quit your job and run this full time, or are you going to try to "it's my second job" it? How many barrels a year are you going to be able to make (and sell)? How big a system can you afford? The bigger the system, the less you spend making each barrel, thus the bigger the profit, assuming you can store and sell it all. Are you putting in a tasting room? Do you have a location? How much per square foot can you afford? How about that triple net? Do you know about the extra state and county taxes just for buying and owning equipment? Does the county you're going to locate in allow bottle/growler sales? Can you pour a full pint? (A local brewery here is limited to 5oz pours) Should I keep going?

I'm not being mean. Really! It's just that there's a metric s***ton of things to consider that nobody but yourself can answer. It's going to take a lot of research.

You might want to read through the Muddy Creek, and Gilded Goat threads to get an idea of what you're in for.

Having typed all that, we're hoping to open our place in another 5~7 months. I'd be happy to toss my 2 cents at any questions you might think of.

The Craft Brewer's Conference would've been the closest thing to what you're asking for. Unfortunately, it was last week.

Contact the Brewer's Association. They're going to have a few resources and books that you'll want, as you move along.

To be honest, the equipment and tanks to brew are not your most important expense, just the most visible. There are hundreds of really mundane, hidden costs that will be more important considerations. Many of these will have a large impact on how big the brewery can grow.

The first thing is to find a location and figure out whether the City and neighbors are going to make it easy or hard on you. Bureaucratic delays are inevitable, looking to clear them early pays off handsomely in the form of lower blood pressure and saved money.

 

[pcarey1222]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I guess I was a bit vague in my originally posting. This would definitely be a full time job, for a few of us. I am in the works of building a business plan to present to investors. I have read several books on opening a place and know about the basic procedures, but one area that is lacking is about equipment and installations of it all.

I am interested in knowing a ballpark cost of what it would take to install a 15bbl system. If there is any place to discuss with that specializes in the buildout of a new space that is not set up for this type of production, even better. How did you go about doing it?

 

[pcarey1222]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. To give you some feedback, there has been a lot of work done to pick a location and have lawyers working on the regulations of the area as well.

Just curious, what would be some of the hundreds of mundane things that cost more than the equipment? You don't need to list them all, haha. Appreciate the feedback and will be in touch with the BA.


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he Craft Brewer's Conference would've been the closest thing to what you're asking for. Unfortunately, it was last week.

Contact the Brewer's Association. They're going to have a few resources and books that you'll want, as you move along.

To be honest, the equipment and tanks to brew are not your most important expense, just the most visible. There are hundreds of really mundane, hidden costs that will be more important considerations. Many of these will have a large impact on how big the brewery can grow.

The first thing is to find a location and figure out whether the City and neighbors are going to make it easy or hard on you. Bureaucratic delays are inevitable, looking to clear them early pays off handsomely in the form of lower blood pressure and saved money.

 

[brewfun]

Just curious, what would be some of the hundreds of mundane things that cost more than the equipment? You don't need to list them all, haha. Appreciate the feedback and will be in touch with the BA.

I didn't say any individual thing would be more than equipment, rather they're more important considerations. Cumulatively, that are more than equipment. Pretty much the issues that come up most often are utility related and have the biggest impact on breweries that are projecting 5000 bbl/yr. and up.

Probably at the top of the list is drains and piping. If you have to dig up your floor and then hook up to the street, this will have architect, engineering and a host of permitting costs.

Look into the utility issues that might arise. One brewery I worked with had their city charge $110,000 for sewer hookup (based on water use).

The best thing is to find a building that fits what a brewery needs, rather than trying to retrofit it. Even if you only need 3/4" pipes for water and gas to start, make sure you can get 2" water or 4" gas down the road without having to rely on the city. Make sure that the city has adequate power available at the transformer. Nothing sucks like buying a big, automated bottling line and having the city reject the electrical plans because they don't have the juice!

After that, internal things like grain handling, steam and glycol installation add up.

What you're entering into is phase one funding. More than likely, you'll need another round of investment to cover more detailed operational issues and support equipment. Maybe it's open investors, maybe family & friends, maybe loans. Maybe it's the "do without" plan, which severely limits brewery size and growth, but helps some people sleep at night.

 

[tagz]

One session I attended at the CBC was about costs of opening a brewery from three perspectives. Shawn Lawson was there to give the "boot strap" method. His upgrade from a 1bbl blichman shed set-up to a 7bbl system cost $250,000... and that's with zero employees.

Here is another breakdown they offered for a low end 7bbl startup.

Grain handling: 10K
Brew house: 80K
Process Control: 2K
Water System: 10K
Cellar: 80K
Brewing Access: 10K
Boiler and Chiller: 12K
Total: ~210K
Estimated Launch Capacity: 610bbl

 

[bobeer]

Best thing you can do is just start going around to local breweries that are doing what you'd like to do and start asking questions. Explain your goal of these conversations and ask when a good time is to sit down with them and have a chat. It will probably take a few of these little chats for you to get all the information you want.
Unfortunately, asking on online forums will get you a mixed bag of responses ranging from "are you sure you know what you're doing?" and "don't waste your time" all the way up to actual answers that you're looking for. I love this forum but it's probably time better spent to go talk with several 15 bbl breweries face to face.

Good luck man!

 

[BentBrewer]

From the corner I sit in:

You can't beat good automation. We are buying an expensive system, but it will save in the long run due to time and employee number savings. Due to efficiency, we will also save on gas/electricity, as well as grain and hops. If you have to start with a small system, you'll end up spending more money in the long run due to upsizing the equipment and down time. Have an expansion plan in place beforehand. Buy boilers and electrical panels to suit said expansion at the start. It's a lot cheaper than replacing it all with larger units later.

As I mentioned earlier, we were a bit taken aback by the extra taxes we weren't aware of at the beginning. Import taxes on the tanks, Iforgetwhatitscalled taxes just because we bought equipment, yearly taxes on said equipment because we own it. No wonder it's so hard to start a business. The pound of flesh comes before the loan.

As for installers, we're going with Barnum Mechanical. They aren't cheap, but they have the needed experience in this area, and they're local. So I have someone to scream at in person if a line blows.

 

[enkamania]

Here is a thread from a guy who went pro https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=386476

 

[BentBrewer]

So here's a fun (not) little 'gotcha' to watch out for:

Make sure the lease agreement states that the building owner will furnish current or at least the original plans for the building.

The building we decided on is only 10 years old, but the owners (a giant commercial development company) can't seem to find anything pertaining to the building construction and layout. Which means we have to shell out extra bucks to have an architect redraw them before we can submit to the city and state for licensing. </grumble>