Prince Charlies 80 Shillling Scottish Ale technique

[ballsy]

Hey all, buddy and I will both brew this recipe. He is going to do the AG and I am going to do the extract version and we will compare final results. This style is meant to have a portion of the first runnings boiled hard for 30 min's prior to the rest of the wort being added and boiled for the remaining 90. This is meant to create an intentional caramelization which is the hallmark of this style. When I do extract I do flame out extract to prevent the dreaded caramelization most styles do not want. In this case I figured you would want to purposefully add the extract at the beginning to get an intentional caramelization. My question is, should I add some but not all extract initially? This would mimic the partial runnings being caramelized in AG version....or you figure I should just add all extract and boil for full 90 min's? Thanks for any experienced extract feedback!

Scottish Ale (Prince Charlie’s 80 Shilling)
For 6 Gallons (45 L)
12.0 lb Maris Otter pale malt (or 8.87 lb maris otter LME)
0.38 lb roasted barley
2.0 oz (113 g) East Kent Golding hops (60 min)
White Labs Edinburgh Ale yeast
Specifications
Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV: 5-6%
IBU: 23
SRM: 13

Directions
AG: Mash at 156°F (69°C) for 60 minutes, heat to 168°F (76°C) over 10 minutes, sparge. Run off 4 gallons (15.14 L) of the first runnings and boil hard for 30 minutes. Then add the remaining wort and continue boil for 90 minutes.

 

[Pappers_]

Looks good and what a great experiment! I'd add all the extract at the beginning, I don't think you'll get too much carmelization.

 

[ballsy]

Looks good and what a great experiment! I'd add all the extract at the beginning, I don't think you'll get too much carmelization.

you win by default @pappers_ lol. Thanks for the feedback. I will do that and report back once we taste and compare!

 

[ballsy]

Brewed this last week. Added all 9lbs MO LME for full 90 min's in about 3 gal water and topped off to 5.5 gal. overshot OG tiny bit (1.060). Buddy will adjust his to get same OG.

 

[ballsy]

Buddy brewing the AG version has slacked off, not even started it. Meanwhile my AE version is done. Probably won't have any left by time he gets motivated. Oh well, I can say this turned out surprisingly well! Can definitely taste the caramelization but not too overwhelming. Glad I ventured out to brew a style I don't typically do. Would definitely brew this again. It's a dark brown, looks darker here due to the lighting. I would say it definitely meets the definition of 14c "Scottish Export" in BJCP manual.

 

[JKaranka]

BJCP is debunking the whole 'kettle caramelization' stuff, though:

"Comments: Malt-focused ales that gain the vast majority of their character from specialty malts, never the process. Burning malt or wort sugars via ‘kettle caramelization’ is not traditional nor is any blatantly ‘butterscotch’ character. Most frequently a draught product. Smoke character is inappropriate as any found traditionally would have come from the peat in the source water. Scottish ales with smoke character should be entered as a Classic Style Smoked Beer.

Characteristic Ingredients: Originally used Scottish pale malt, grits or flaked maize, and brewers caramel for color. Later adapted to use additional ingredients, such as amber and brown malts, crystal and wheat malts, and roasted grains or dark sugars for color but not for the ‘roasty’ flavor. Sugar adjuncts are traditional. Clean or slightly fruity yeast. Peatsmoked malt is inauthentic and inappropriate. "

I'd agree that the ones I've seen tend to be similar to dark milds (pale malt + sugar + brewers' as a base).

 

[ballsy]

BJCP is debunking the whole 'kettle caramelization' stuff, though:

"Comments: Malt-focused ales that gain the vast majority of their character from specialty malts, never the process. Burning malt or wort sugars via ‘kettle caramelization’ is not traditional nor is any blatantly ‘butterscotch’ character. Most frequently a draught product. Smoke character is inappropriate as any found traditionally would have come from the peat in the source water. Scottish ales with smoke character should be entered as a Classic Style Smoked Beer.

Characteristic Ingredients: Originally used Scottish pale malt, grits or flaked maize, and brewers caramel for color. Later adapted to use additional ingredients, such as amber and brown malts, crystal and wheat malts, and roasted grains or dark sugars for color but not for the ‘roasty’ flavor. Sugar adjuncts are traditional. Clean or slightly fruity yeast. Peatsmoked malt is inauthentic and inappropriate. "

I'd agree that the ones I've seen tend to be similar to dark milds (pale malt + sugar + brewers' as a base).

Ahhhhh, interesting I missed that in the comments section....the overall section as well as the flavor section discuss the occasional butterscotch after taste ("...subtle butterscotch character is acceptable however burnt sugar sugars are not."). Guess that recipe needs updating!

 

[JKaranka]

Ahhhhh, interesting I missed that in the comments section....the overall section as well as the flavor section discuss the occasional butterscotch after taste ("...subtle butterscotch character is acceptable however burnt sugar sugars are not."). Guess that recipe needs updating!

I think your extract recipe without caramelising is pretty much spot on, though! (You could add a tad of sugar, but hey!)