primary fermentaion in 59gl barrel?

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TravisT

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So I am going to brew a lambic/american wild ale. That being said i'm going to fill a 59gl wine barrel by myself. I plan on doing two double brew day of 11gl batches of about 1.072 wort. So i will end up with 44gallons of 1.072 wort. I will then delude the wort with about 12 gallons of water to equal 56 gallons of 1.053 wort. I will be inoculating the wort with 5gl of ecy20 sour that is 3-4months old, and 5 gallons of another sour made from dregs that is about 6 months old. So the total would be 66 gallons of beer, about 7 gallons will be kept for top offs to equal 59gl in the oak barrel and 6-7 in a glass carboy to be used if the barrel needs to be topped off from time to time.

I pretty much know that I can brew enough beer to fill a 59gl barrel, my question is do you think that I should do primary in the barrel? Keep in mind i hope to make this a solera project that I would like to keep going for 5+ years, taking 15gallons once or twice a year and filling with fresh or maybe even really young sour beer that has gone through primary fermentation. I could do primary fermentation in a few carboys and 15gl water storage containers, then transfer into the oak barrel.

here are my options....

option 1 - just do primary in the barrel. its the most simple way to fill a 59 barrel by yourself. Lambic breweries do it this way.....why not?

option 2 - do primary fermentation in carboys and a couple of 15 gallon water containers even though this is going to cost extra and be more of a pain in the a$$.

I'm a little worried about autolysis developing in the beer long term(3+ years).

I would like to hear back from people that have done large solera projects longer that 3 years, and what you have experienced, or maybe have read about solera project. I'll be starting the project very soon!!!!:rockin:
 
I do not "solera" that way, however to answer your question - I have done all my primaries in the barrel and never had negative results. Brettanomyces will feed on the yeast that falls out for a long period of time. I've never had a sour beer that tasted autolysed. With continual fermentations happening in the same barrel you would want to remove some of that material at some point - perhaps just siphoning it off every now and again would be good. Yes, many breweries do primary in the barrel, but the also do clean their barrels regularly.
 
If you're planning on running the solera for a long time and adding unfermented wort directly to the barrel, you're potentially going to end up with a yeast cake inches and inches thick.

You're also going to have less control over which yeast and bacteria are doing the bulk of the fermentation. If you allow a year or more to pass between pulls and adding fresh wort, you're going to have a bunch of dead sacch and a bunch of live and healthy lacto/brett/pedio which will make a much more sour beer more quickly.

I have a 59 gallon wine barrel solera going and I opted to do a clean ferment and then add to the barrel to reduce the amount of sugars that the bacteria and brett had to consume. The idea being to keep the beer from getting too sour too quickly.
 
Sub'd. Although not a barrel, I have a 15 gallon speidel and was toying with the idea of doing a ECY20 lambic solera. The issue of oxygen permeability aside, the above mentioned issues were some of my concerns. At least in my case, sounds like it'd be better to brew a new 15 gallon batch every 1-2 years.
 
save a cup of slurry from the previous batch to inoculate the new one.

I was planning to start fermentation with two vials of ECY20 and add dregs as needed if the flavor profile isn't there. Hopefully I can time subsequent batches with transferring into carboys and bottling so I can reuse the cake/slurry.
 
thanks for the replies, I think that I'm not going to do primary in the barrel. I have enough carboys to easily ferment 40 gallons. thats not counting the 10 gallons that I was going to inoculate the barrel with. that will only leave me 10 gallons short of the 59 mark. i could buy a couple of buckets for pretty cheap if i need to.

I plan on pulling some of the yeast cake from the 10gl of sour beer I already have and inoculate the wort as it gets brewed. Doing it this way will allow me the spread my brew days out and not have to brew 59gl in two days. Doing it this way will also allow me to use my 2 temp controlled fridges.


I went to the supplier that i am going to buy the barrel from and they had a nice selection of barrels. I almost pulled the trigger and bought one but they said that they always have wine barrels in stock, so i decided to wait.

I still need to weld up a barrel stand and clear a spot in my basement. I'll keep everyone updated as the project move along.
 
You made the right decision, I think. :) Even if you don't have enough fermenter space to fill the entire barrel in one day, I think you would be fine. You could fill the rest of the 10 gallons within 2-3 weeks and I don't think that would hurt anything. I am looking forward to watching your youtube videos on this project! Cheers!
 
thanks for the replies, I think that I'm not going to do primary in the barrel. I have enough carboys to easily ferment 40 gallons. thats not counting the 10 gallons that I was going to inoculate the barrel with. that will only leave me 10 gallons short of the 59 mark. i could buy a couple of buckets for pretty cheap if i need to.

I went to Lowes/Home Depot and picked up a couple Brute garbage cans. I used 2 35 gallon ones as fermentors for the initial barrel fill and a 15 gallon one as a fermentor when I need to brew a 10 gallon top off batch. They're food grade and were just a little over $20 for the smaller one and $35 for the bigger ones.

I came up with the idea on my own since we used to use these containers as pizza sauce holding vessels at a deli I used to work at in high school, but there is a thread here about it - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/using-20-gal-trash-can-fermenter-195660/
 
So on April 28 I began my 60 gl brew day. It took 2 days doing double brew days. my preboil gravity was at 13gl @1.061 which was the max volume i could start my boil at. At the end of the boil i would add about 3-4 gallons of boiling water to "top off" my keggle to as close to 15 gallons as i would dare. This would end up to be about a 1.053 og wort after the water top off. I would collect about 14gl of wort.

15gl batch
og 1.053
IBU 5
srm 3.3

23lb of german pilsner malt
5lb of wheat malt

hops
1.25 oz of 3.7%AA hops



I ended up buying a 55gl PET barrel from my LHBS that held LME, i layed it on its side with some PBW and kept rolling it to get it clean and then i did the same thing with star-san to sanatize it. I was happy to pay the $20 for a barrel that i knew was clean and safe for beer.

I filled the 55gl PET barrel as high as i dared and pitched in the 10gl of ECY01 bug blend that i had brewed two weeks before. It was basically a big started that would inoculate the 45 gallons of wort with. I got lucky and the krousen never got that high in the barrel as the picture shows. i ended up with about 13 gallons of beer that i fermented in seperate carboys that adds up to 60gl of beer.

I will buy the actually wine barrel very soon and will transfer the beer into the barrel for long term aging. More updates to come!!!!

20140502_131057.jpg


20140502_131131.jpg
 
Nice. Looks like a red barrel judging by the stains around the bung.

Yeah its a 2012 Girard Cabernet Sauvignon. At least that was the last batch of wine that was in it. I'm not a wine drinker so I don't know if that is a good wine or not.
 
Looks like I'm not moving out of this house for a while. I added 5gl of a 6month old beer the was fermented with ecy20 bug blend. Its been slowly chugging away.

1403201118305.jpg
 
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