Price for welding

[brewmeister13]

Hi all,

I am in the market to have a Brutus 10 style stand welded. I drew up some plans and took them to a local welding shop (a few actually) for quotes. What I got back was a bit surprising. They wanted nearly $2000 for a tig welded stand and $1300 for arc (I'm not a welder, but I thought tig was a form of arc, as mig and stick are too, correct me if I'm wrong).

This includes the price of material (2X2 16 gauge 304 stainless, about 40 feet worth), but not casters or levelers. I looked online and found I could get the steel shipped to me for around $330. I didn't get an itemized quote, but assumed a local shop could do better than an internet site on steel. That leaves about $1000 for arc welding and almost $1700 for tig.

This sounds a bit ridiculous to me. I searched, but could only find a few guys from a few years back saying $450 was about average to pay a tig welder. What price should I expect to be fair?

Thanks

Edit: to clarify, I am not looking at exclusively TIG welding, I would be happy with MIG. I am also not looking to weld it myself, I have barely enough time to actually brew. Thanks for all comments, but I was looking for what some people have paid, or what those with experience would charge, to weld up a standard single tier stand.

FOR THOSE SEARCHING FOR THE ANSWER: page 3 has an update with the prices I found.

 

[bmunos]

wow. Thats way high. Why do you want it to be tig welded? In all honesty you could weld it yourself. Go to a steel yard with a cut list. They will charge you per cut. Then buy the harbor freight MIG kit. Its like squeezing toothpaste, anyone can do it. A little scrap steel and about an hours worth of practice and you can do the whole project yourself for under 500 bucks.

 

[emyers]

I agree with bmunos. Flux core mig welding steel is super easy to learn. The welds may not look pretty but you can grind them down if you really care. If you absolutely are stuck on using stainless you will need a MIG welder with a gas feed for shielding gas. Again its "like squeezing toothpase" the key is getting your wire speed and amperage dialed in. Stainless is a bit more finekey than mild steel, you will need tri mix helium/argon/co2 and a clean stainless steel wire brush or SS wire wheel. You can probably source a nice used craigslist miller mig for around $1000 with tank and some accessories, spend maybe $100-200 on gas and materials and then once all done you flip it back onto cragislist all for about what you paid. You wont need a 240V welder so stay away from the big units, stick with a 115V unit. All the shops i work in have millers and i love em. The digital welders self adjust a bit and have weld starting adjustment features.

Here is a model thats good for the homeowner/hobbiest. You may need to install a 20A breaker/wires/outlet if you don't already have one. http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/product.php?model=M00234

 

[SpikeBrewing]

So you're suggesting he goes and buys a MIG welder, roll of filler material, Argon, welding helmet, chop saw, etc etc?? I don't get people on HBT sometimes ha ha

TIG, MIG and Arc are all completely different. TIG will give you the nicest looking bead (also takes the longest) and Arc will give the worst. There really isn't a reason to TIG a brew stand, MIG will do just fine.

$2000 seems in the ball park. A shop charges anywhere from $60-$100/hr. So $400 in material plus $900-$1400 in labor doesn't seem outrageous (about a day or two of work). I would ask them to MIG it and do it for around $1500.

Or you could buy $3000 in equipment and teach yourself to weld

 

[brewmeister13]

I'm not set on tig, was more looking to compare cost to see if the price would be worth it. For me it's looking like it's not.

As far as learning my self, I'm not going that route. I have a 9 month old, no time and no desire to weld anything else.

Thanks for the replies. I'll try checking out a few craigslist welders and see what they say. It looks like I may have to rig something else up for my equipment until I can afford to get a stand welded.

 

[wickman6]

I'm with Spike on this one, welding doesn't come cheap. You are asking for a very expensive job by using stainless, and a good welder capable of doing the job is highly skilled, especially if you want it tig welded.

Op, yes tig is a form of arc in that it uses an electrical arc to short out purposely in order to melt the steel. So basically any welder that plugs in to the wall is technically arc, but smaw(stick) welding is commonly called arc.

Edit: I will disagree kindly with Spike that arc will give the worst looking weld. Properly performed, they look beautiful. Problem is most guys can't do it right anymore....lol

 

[The_Canmancan]

I bought myself a welder from Northern just to do a Brutus style build. With all the accessories and whatnot, probably set me back about $400. Another $175 for 50ft of plain 2x2 14ga. metal from a local shop. I enjoy these kinds of projects and am glad I bought everything to build it myself, and at the end I still have all the tools. That being said, it's a very time consuming project. Measuring, cutting, clamping, welding, grinding, welding again. I have over 12 hours into it and basically only have a box and still have a ways to go to finish it up. What I'm trying to get at, is that I never bothered to price out welding, but $1000 just in labor doesn't seem outrageous to me.

 

[bmunos]

got my 187 hobart mig for 200 bucks

I work for a Welding manufacturing company. I asked around and most of them said they would charge 10-20 bucks an hours. at 1k thats 100 hours of man hours? Doesnt add up. Although you are looking at TIG and stainless.

 

[bmunos]

So you're suggesting he goes and buys a MIG welder, roll of filler material, Argon, welding helmet, chop saw, etc etc?? I don't get people on HBT sometimes ha ha

TIG, MIG and Arc are all completely different. TIG will give you the nicest looking bead (also takes the longest) and Arc will give the worst. There really isn't a reason to TIG a brew stand, MIG will do just fine.

$2000 seems in the ball park. A shop charges anywhere from $60-$100/hr. So $400 in material plus $900-$1400 in labor doesn't seem outrageous (about a day or two of work). I would ask them to MIG it and do it for around $1500.

Or you could buy $3000 in equipment and teach yourself to weld

You dont understand us? Then get off of the DIY/ BREW YOUR OWN forum? Isnt that what BYOB is about? DIY?

Also I think there are plenty of people on her welding without 3k in equipment. I being one of them. I understand you make your living welding equipment for people who are too intimidated to DIY, but that doesn't mean you should criticize those encouraging others to do so.

 

[revco]

That seems a little high to me, but it depends on the work you want done and how many welds you're talking about. Rolled steel and MIG will be much cheaper than stainless and TIG, but the latter will be a better end result.

A good way to save some money, though, would be to invest into a chop saw, source the material yourself and pre-cut all the material. That way, all you're paying for is welding and it will more than likely save you the cash (and then some) for what you paid to buy a chop saw.

Or, you could do what I did and make your system out of wood. Although you have to take some precautions with the design to make sure it won't burn your house down, you can get a similar result at a fraction of the price. I used commercial burners instead of an inlaid burners and have virtually zero risk of fire, the wood barely even gets warm. Plus, I was able to build it with the tools I had all ready invested in. Something to think about at least. Good luck & happy brewing!

 

[MalFet]

got my 187 hobart mig for 200 bucks

I work for a Welding manufacturing company. I asked around and most of them said they would charge 10-20 bucks an hours. at 1k thats 100 hours of man hours? Doesnt add up. Although you are looking at TIG and stainless.

Holy guacamole. That just goes to show how much location matters for rates of pay. Unskilled grunts and cleaning ladies make 10-20 an hour in my neighborhood. Skilled welders bill five times that.

 

[brewmeister13]

Or, you could do what I did and make your system out of wood. Although you have to take some precautions with the design to make sure it won't burn your house down, you can get a similar result at a fraction of the price. I used commercial burners instead of an inlaid burners and have virtually zero risk of fire, the wood barely even gets warm. Plus, I was able to build it with the tools I had all ready invested in. Something to think about at least. Good luck & happy brewing!

Yeah, if I can't swing the stand I want now I was planning on rigging something up out of wood and brick until I can afford the stainless stand. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[movet22]

You dont understand us? Then get off of the DIY/ BREW YOUR OWN forum? Isnt that what BYOB is about? DIY?

Also I think there are plenty of people on her welding without 3k in equipment. I being one of them. I understand you make your living welding equipment for people who are too intimidated to DIY, but that doesn't mean you should criticize those encouraging others to do so.

Hey, hey- play nice. You are right, challenge is certainly the essence of DIY, but you have to understand that some of us on here (like myself) can't hammer a nail straight. Buying welding equipment to teach myself to weld is a laughable concept. Not to mention I would manage to blow my whole neighborhood up.

 

[mikescooling]

FYI a brew stand has about a hundred 2"welds, but before you weld you tack weld, then when everything is finished you grind. It takes some time. Labor for a skilled trade is 80$ an hr and you also have to pay for consumibles, like gas, wire, tips, equment use. Anything stainless, back-up your money truck. What do you have against mild steel? Are you a mild steel hater? It's strong, cheep, and easy to work with.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

You dont understand us? Then get off of the DIY/ BREW YOUR OWN forum? Isnt that what BYOB is about? DIY?

Also I think there are plenty of people on her welding without 3k in equipment. I being one of them. I understand you make your living welding equipment for people who are too intimidated to DIY, but that doesn't mean you should criticize those encouraging others to do so.

It wasn't in the DIY section. I wasn't trying to discourage anyone, sorry if it came across that way. The guy obviously didn't own a welder or know anyone personally to weld in his garage since he got quotes from a company so suggesting he purchase a lot of equipment seemed a little out there. I actually answered the question that was at hand...

got my 187 hobart mig for 200 bucks

I work for a Welding manufacturing company. I asked around and most of them said they would charge 10-20 bucks an hours. at 1k thats 100 hours of man hours? Doesnt add up. Although you are looking at TIG and stainless.

Joe Schmo can weld in his garage for $10-20/hr but you'll be dealing with a guy welding out of a garage. If you want an actually company to do it it'll be the shop rate of $60-$100/hr. That rate pays for electricity, consumables, the welders wage, sales, marketing, accounting, etc etc etc. Over head is a concept many people don't understand and it's frustrating for a lot of businesses.

Hey, hey- play nice. You are right, challenge is certainly the essence of DIY, but you have to understand that some of us on here (like myself) can't hammer a nail straight. Buying welding equipment to teach myself to weld is a laughable concept. Not to mention I would manage to blow my whole neighborhood up.

At least there's one other person the suggestion a little off the wall

 

[TerraNova]

You dont understand us? Then get off of the DIY/ BREW YOUR OWN forum? Isnt that what BYOB is about? DIY?

Also I think there are plenty of people on her welding without 3k in equipment. I being one of them. I understand you make your living welding equipment for people who are too intimidated to DIY, but that doesn't mean you should criticize those encouraging others to do so.

I agree with a few other posters that this isn't really a very cool comment.

There are numerous reasons why someone would not want to buy welding equipment and learn welding for this task..mainly it's brewing hobby, not metalworking. I have gone my whole life so far without the need to weld. It's possible that I may go the rest of my life without the need. So it's is just easier to hire someone for this solo task. And everybody that hires someone to do a task isn't "too intimidated" to learn to do it themselves. When one of my water pipes burst in my house I called a pro plumber, not because I wasn't able to comprehend the magic of plumbing, but because they would be faster, more skilled, HAVE THE TOOLS (I didn't want to have to buy a pipe threader) and THEY GUARANTEE THIER WORK.

I looked into the cost of hiring a welder for my rig and compared that to taking a short course on welding and buying a bunch of welding equipment. Then I factored in that a pro would still make a better weld and better looking (why spend all this money to have rookie quality), and then space for storing the tools, time, and a million other factors, it just made sense to hire someone to do this for me. Then I decided to make my stand out of Strut which ended up being cheaper even when buying the ridiculously expensive SS fittings.

There are myriad reasons why everybody does what they do for this hobby. Space, time, money, SWMBO, feasibility, and focus just to name a few.

Keep in mind it is a brewing hobby, not a equipment fabrication hobby, although that can be one of various fun channels of it.

 

[latium]

If welding isn't something you want to do (or pay for), and if you don't like the idea of a wooden stand, you could build something like this. (I recently priced that parts list, and it's only about 10% more now.) There have also been a ton of builds posted here. Google "weldless brew stand" for many hours of reading if you want to see more and get idea.

 

[bmunos]

Re-reading my post I think I was a little harsh. Sorry spike.. I just don't like the notion you have to have 3k in equipment to build your own stand. I no doubt went a little crazy sorry!

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I have pretty thick skin so no worries. The 3k was a bit dramatic if you're going with Harbor Freight stuff but I like Miller

 

[aeviaanah]

i just pulled up images of the brutus 10. I am a union sheetmetal worker specializing in stuff like this. On the side, I would charge 50-60 an hour. Through my company they would charge 100 an hour, It would take me 6 hours. That is for MIG welded. For TIG tack on another 2 hours.

Hope you get it figured out!

 

[emyers]

So you're suggesting he goes and buys a MIG welder, roll of filler material, Argon, welding helmet, chop saw, etc etc?? I don't get people on HBT sometimes ha ha

You don't get me? Well I'm a jack of all trades, master of none. I believe that if you want it then you can build it, and its been working for me. DIY always gives the project an extra pride aspect, even if it takes twice as long as the pros. Especially when it comes down to a $2000 quote for something you can do with much less spent DIY. If you read my post i said with mild steel you don't need as much, you can just get a used 115v flux welder kit and lay down some ****ty looking welds that should be more than strong enough. I work with metal all the time and try to find a chop saw in my garage. I use a angle grinder, sawzall, skillsaw with metal cutting blade, belt sander, and 1/4" electric die grinder. Most of which you should find in an average working mans garage... if you ask me. Not all of us are in the business of building brew rigs, some of us do it as a hobby that involves stepping out of familiar territory and learning something new, like welding! Its not rocket science.

And key point, if you get a good deal on a used mig with accessories, they don't depreciate much, if at all. You can flip it and only pay for a spool of wire and maybe a tank of argon/co2, if that.

 

[StainlessBrewing]

Hey Brewmeister13, glad to see another local! There's a place in Tucson called IMS or Industrial Metal Supply. I haven't been to that location but the one here in Phoenix is like a candy store. I get so many ideas just looking through their showroom. Get some quotes from them on not only the total amount of material but cut pieces as well. If you're set on stainless, go for it but mild steel would save some cash. Some other options on looking for a good stainless welder is to ask the company that I mentioned who sells to tons of contractors or your local brewery (Nimbus is one), Bakery, or food processing plant nearby who they have do their work. There's tons of contractors that travel nation wide doing work and usually love beer! I understand that time is money but welding is pretty fun! The prep...not so much.

 

[StainlessBrewing]

By the way there's no need for tig on this application. You get the right guy, they'll mig like tig.

 

[alien]

Welding your own brew stand seems to me like an excellent project for a beginner. I recently got an old stick/TIG welder cheap and I am planning to do just that. The welds will be ugly, but they will be mine.

 

[brewmeister13]

Hey Brewmeister13, glad to see another local! There's a place in Tucson called IMS or Industrial Metal Supply. I haven't been to that location but the one here in Phoenix is like a candy store. I get so many ideas just looking through their showroom. Get some quotes from them on not only the total amount of material but cut pieces as well. If you're set on stainless, go for it but mild steel would save some cash. Some other options on looking for a good stainless welder is to ask the company that I mentioned who sells to tons of contractors or your local brewery (Nimbus is one), Bakery, or food processing plant nearby who they have do their work. There's tons of contractors that travel nation wide doing work and usually love beer! I understand that time is money and but welding is pretty fun! The prep...not so much.

Thanks for the info, I'll have to check IMS out. I've considered mild, especially with the dry climate, but when I priced out the material it was about $200 cheaper. To me the $200 would be worth the difference, unless the welding of stainless is what is driving up the price. Is it that much cheaper for someone to weld mild steel than SS?

 

[StainlessBrewing]

Thanks for the info, I'll have to check IMS out. I've considered mild, especially with the dry climate, but when I priced out the material it was about $200 cheaper. To me the $200 would be worth the difference, unless the welding of stainless is what is driving up the price. Is it that much cheaper for someone to weld mild steel than SS?

Not if you find the right welder. Yeah filler wire is a little more, you want to use straight argon rather than a mix but it shouldn't be too much of a difference. It's possible that welder just doesn't like welding stainless or isn't as comfortable with it and charging more. TIG does require more time as well. Search "Process Welder" or like I said ask a local brew pub.

 

[mikescooling]

Metal Supermarkets gave me a crazy price!! Over 300$ for 2" mild steel. Another place sold it to me with all the cuts made for 100$ You gotta make some calls.

 

[brewmeister13]

After a bit more searching here is what I came up with.

Material cost from IMS in Tucson (all prices are cut to size):
304 Stainless 2x2 16 gauge-$5.83/ft, total $349
Mild (hot rolled) steel 2x2 11 gauge-$3.06/ft, total $183
Angle iron 2x2 11 gauge-$2.08/ft, total $84 (the lower total is from less material needed)

I didn't get anything from them, but thought that someone might find it useful to see the prices in the future.

As far as my build goes, R&R Steel Fabrication is going to do the build and quoted $675. It will be built with 2x2 11 gauge mild steel. The price includes all materials (including casters), cutting, welding and mounting 2 burner, 2 pumps and a cfc. I'm going to paint it myself.

Hope this information may help someone in the future.

 

[brewmeister13]

And here it is:

 

[T_Baggins]

Brewmeister13, I am a certified professional welder. I work in a massive fab shop. I believe MOST of your cost (depending in the facility) is engineering. At my shop, if you give them a basic drawing, an engineers will put the specs into a CAD program, which will in turn be converted into CNC programs for each operation. Cutting the tubing, bending, drilling etc.... then if there is any sheetmetal, hardware etc etc.. it all gets engineered, programmed, fabricated, re-fabricated (depending on how many parts they screw up the first time) welded, shipped etc...it's all about paying for their software/man hours etc...

If you want to email me some specs/drawings I will get you an estimate from my shop. Another way to do it is, I could order the material through my shop for personal use, and possibly work on it on my own time. [email protected]

I am certified in Tig for stainless, aluminum, and chrome moly aerospace applications. Also Canadian certified (supersedes AWS) in Fluxcore and hardwire in all postitions

 

[T_Baggins]

By the way there's no need for tig on this application. You get the right guy, they'll mig like tig.

The new proper terms for Mig/Tig are GMAW/GTAW respectively. I do make Mig welds look like Tig welds, but even using pulse Mig in spray mode, there now way to keep ALL the splatter/berries at bay. A Tig weld will be MUCH cleaner and smaller, more precise beads can be achieved. Also there is less chance for porosity, undercut, inclusions etc, which are all detrimental to food grade weldments.

 

[T_Baggins]

oops, I'm an idiot now lol...should have read more of the posts... cool you got it done...looks good!

 

[mkringii]

Not a bad price or job all said and done! Local guy (kinda friend) makes 8 stands on a sunday using plain brutus stands using 16ga mild steel then sells them for $300 OTD takes him roughly 10 hours to make all 8(hes also a design/fabricator at a local shop and specializes in TIG) he made my SS stand for $550, cutting me a deal obviously

Before i meet him i was getting same quotes at local shops.. 90-120hr 5 hours.. Even to have my kettles converted (3 half in welds) was gunna run me $500.. He did all 9 (3 keggles) for 150$

It did however take me almost 8 months to find the right guy for the quality work at right price

 

[brewmeister13]

I appreciate the offer T_Baggins, if I didn't already have it done it would definitely have helped. All the information was good too, thanks. At least now there is more information for the next person looking to have a stand welded.

 

[T_Baggins]

Hey no problem, I was just glad to finally see a question I actually know something about! lol

 

[ContinuousD]

The May/June issue of Zymurgy has a detailed article on how to build a stand out of strut channel with everything purchased at Home Depot. I think the cost was about 250. Depending on what tools you have you may need to add 100 to 200 more. If you join the AHA for 35 bucks or so you should be able to view the article on line.