So you fill the keg through the gas in post?
No my fingers typed something my brain did not think. OOOPS. Fixed.
So you fill the keg through the gas in post?
Has anyone tried filling the SK with sanitizer/water and then pushing it out with fermentation gas? Is it necessary to elevate the SK so that a siphon doesn't start and pull in air somehow through the keg lid or something? I thought it would be cool to just be certain that I am getting 100% CO2 into my SK this way. Maybe it's overkill though.
I’ve been thinking about this since you asked in another thread.
Once fermentation starts, you could let a little pressure build in the FV in order to start the siphon in the SV out to another vessel which would have either a sounding valve or blow off installed on it?
Has anyone tried filling the SK with sanitizer/water and then pushing it out with fermentation gas? Is it necessary to elevate the SK so that a siphon doesn't start and pull in air somehow through the keg lid or something? I thought it would be cool to just be certain that I am getting 100% CO2 into my SK this way. Maybe it's overkill though.
Has anyone tried filling the SK with sanitizer/water and then pushing it out with fermentation gas? Is it necessary to elevate the SK so that a siphon doesn't start and pull in air somehow through the keg lid or something? I thought it would be cool to just be certain that I am getting 100% CO2 into my SK this way. Maybe it's overkill though.
Awesome! Thanks for the feedback. I'll just purge a keg and then further purge it if I want to transfer over sometime.
The motivation for this was to try a split batch comparing the effect of racking vs just serving from primary. I was curious if I would like the flavor of one over the other: served out of primary using the CBDS vs transferring to a SK after a week or two in the keezer and then being able to flip the keg now and then to stir up any dropped out hoppiness.
I just stick the squeezed hop bag inside a plastic bag, then stick a 10-15 psi CO2 hose inside the mesh bag and cinch it around the hose. Move it around a bit, and squeeze-purge it a few times. The squeezed hop bag goes into the keg while CO2 is streaming in through the gas port. I doubt much or any air/O2 makes it in there.Still...is it just a matter of putting the bagged hops in a container....somehow getting a co2 hose in there and then purge...burb...purge...burp for however long....then while running the gas hooked up to keg...open lid of keg...quickly open lid of container with hops and dropping in...close and purge keg?
To add another data point to the thread, I recently tried dry hopping under pressure for the first time. I closed transferred after 8 days in primary to a purged keg with bagged dry hops and put it under about 4-6 psi(read with spunding valve). Recipe was Trillium-ish, 70% 2 row, 20% white wheat, the rest crystal and carapils. Galaxy/columbus hops. I tried a taste yesterday after 4 days in the keg and the hop flavors and aroma seemed very subdued, so I'd say I'm less than impressed BUT it's very early so I'm going to give it another week in the keg and try again.
I just did this with a lager and was somewhat surprised when the fermentation completely emptied the SK of star-san overnight. I did not observe any suckback, but everything (FV, SK, and star-san blowoff bucket) was pretty much at the same temp. I had the same thought as ttuato regarding pressure fermentation, as I did not want to subject the yeast to much pressure during the first couple of days. So I checked what the psi equivalent of ~20 inches of water is: it's less than 1 psi, so really not much pressure. I have no idea whether that amount of pressure reduces yeast esters (it might), but since I was brewing a lager, I didn't care.I tried it and had same issue of the siphon going backwards into the fermenting beer due to temperature drop of keg full of air (fluctuates wildly) vs keg full of fluid (gradually temp changes) - that was the first problem, and a big one...
The second problem is that in order for the fermentation gas to push the liquid out it needs to build pressure both in FV & SK --- resulting in a "pressure ferment". For lagers & lager yeas - no problem as it helps keep things "clean". For NEIPA (85% of what I brew) - no thanks, I want those yeast esters. I A/B'd it side by side with a 1oz/gal dryhop with Conan and there was a noticeable difference - five others tasted blindly and could tell as well. My wife who has the better sense of smell said the pressure ferment was less aromatic.
Now that you have been fermenting in a conical for a while, have you found it to be as easy if not easier to ferment beer in than kegs? Dry hop additions....are you still bagging those? Cold crashing.....? Transfers? Any pro's and cons list?
The conical did not make my process any easier. It was about net-equal for me. There are a few benefits i've been able to get:
1. I can reliably get 5 1/4 gallons of finished beer into a serving keg. I fill until beer is coming out the gas post. I've been able to dial in my volumes pretty well. This is the greatest benefit because i'm getting about 15% more finished beer every time i brew.
2. I added a perlick sampling port to the center of the conical. This makes taking samples much easier, less messy and much smaller sample size, than taking a sample with a short cobra tap on the liquid port.
3. It's much faster to finish cooling a batch during the warmer months when my water temps are higher. My freezers would only do about 5F/hr. This seems to do about 15-20F/hr.
Other than that....
It's harder to clean. There are a lot more parts. I bought it with the intention of CIP but it's not at all CIP friendly. Not even close.
Harvesting the yeast is a beyotch. I used to just swirl and tip the keg into a sanitized flask but this guy you can't swirl or tip. Sometimes the yeast comes out, sometimes it doesn't. I have an idea for a solution for this but haven't executed yet.
Overall I'm neutral about the benefits. If i had a do-over i wouldn't do it because it was >$2500 to get the fermenter, glycol, and all the other parts. The value isn't there.
Thank you for sharing! I guess I'll stick with the kegs for now.
I've only done this once but figured out a decent way to harvest yeast from the primary keg. After transferring to another vessel from the primary keg, I flip the primary keg upside down on my bench with my short sampling picnic tap set up attached to the the gas in post and gas attached to the out post. Of course the quick disconnects need to be switched to do this. Then I just push the yeast out of the keg into sterilized canning jars and cap. With the gas dip tube cut...I get all the yeast and it's a little easier to be sanitary and clean while harvesting the yeast.
My main disappointment with the conical was that i was hoping for it to reduce the amount of time i spent on brewing, but it didn't do that. Quite the opposite.
I just take all the hardware off and out of my kegs....poppets, lid, PRV, dip tubes...etc and put everything inside the keg and fill it with hot water and PBW. Easy...soak, dump, rinse, Star San, and put it back together.
I guess in order to clean a conical, you can not clean the various ported hardware throughly by putting them inside the conical and soaking due to the holes they come out of.
Thanks again for sharing. I’m sure this thread has helped a lot of people make better beer AND save some money.
I'd been thinking about this for a while but always got hung up on the fact that I wouldn't quite end up with a full 5 gallons of beer. But I've gotten over that and want to give it a try. I don't plan to spund just yet--I'll purge the serving keg with the fermentation gas, then transfer and carb with a tank gas.
I would highly recommend not using tank gas to carbonate. If you're going to transfer finished beer at least inject some priming sugar solution into the keg to let it naturally carbonate.
Is that just because of the impurity of the gas and resulting oxidation?
I'd been thinking about this for a while but always got hung up on the fact that I wouldn't quite end up with a full 5 gallons of beer. But I've gotten over that and want to give it a try. I don't plan to spund just yet--I'll purge the serving keg with the fermentation gas, then transfer and carb with a tank gas.
Two questions:
1. Has anyone had trouble using a floating diptube in the fermenting keg getting clogged?
2. Is it just a matter of trial and error to figure out how much wort to put in the fermenting keg to avoid blowoff? Start with something like 4gallons, see how it goes, and adjust next time?
... So I checked what the psi equivalent of ~20 inches of water is: it's less than 1 psi, so really not much pressure....
Did you add the atmospheric pressure of 14.5psi? Remember that a spund valve obscures the atmospheric pressure from the spunded volume.
But hmm, an open ferment is at atmospheric. So it must be additive somehow
I'd be interested in hearing more on question 1. I made a peach milkshake IPA and went to transfer it to my SK last night. My FV has the floating dip tube. I had a hell of a time getting it to transfer. I'm not sure if it was the floating tube, the amount of fruit/hops or carb level??? It seemed like even with a cold crash for a few days that the fruit didn't settling like it should. Could the spunding and carbing of the beer keep the fruit in suspension? I'm stumpedI'd been thinking about this for a while but always got hung up on the fact that I wouldn't quite end up with a full 5 gallons of beer. But I've gotten over that and want to give it a try. I don't plan to spund just yet--I'll purge the serving keg with the fermentation gas, then transfer and carb with a tank gas.
Two questions:
1. Has anyone had trouble using a floating diptube in the fermenting keg getting clogged?
2. Is it just a matter of trial and error to figure out how much wort to put in the fermenting keg to avoid blowoff? Start with something like 4gallons, see how it goes, and adjust next time?
Yeast stop working at pressures in excess of 150PSI so you shouldn't worry about that. On the other hand, since you didn't measure gravity you should worry about not having enough fermentables to reach desired carbonation.Any issues with wlp090 at pressure or above a certain pressure? Started a 1.055 og pale ale at 66 for 4 days, bubbling slowed but not stopped from my blowoff so I capped with spund but didn’t check gravity first. I also upped temp to 70 at the same time to finish off. I get the feeling the answer is going to be “wait” but I just wanted to make sure this yeast isn’t fighting me cause it’s at pressure
The fruit can trap CO2 in it from fermenting the sugars in it, causing it to float.I'd be interested in hearing more on question 1. I made a peach milkshake IPA and went to transfer it to my SK last night. My FV has the floating dip tube. I had a hell of a time getting it to transfer. I'm not sure if it was the floating tube, the amount of fruit/hops or carb level??? It seemed like even with a cold crash for a few days that the fruit didn't settling like it should. Could the spunding and carbing of the beer keep the fruit in suspension? I'm stumped
Yeast stop working at pressures in excess of 150PSI so you shouldn't worry about that. On the other hand, since you didn't measure gravity you should worry about not having enough fermentables to reach desired carbonation.
A. To make the FV first you need to bend the liquid dip tube to reach the side wall of the keg. This should put you about an inch off the bottom so you'll avoid all the yeast. If in doubt bend a little more and if you're leaving too much beer, then bend it further back. You may have to dial this in a little over a few
Something like this will work. What I do is use one of those mesh hop canisters and drill a hole in the top for the dip tube to enter. You'll still likely have to modify your dip tube though. I have to cut a little bit off mine to shorter it, because it doesn't have that valley in the bottom of the keg to sit in with the canister there.Instead of bending the dip tube, what about putting a cup under it? Maybe the plastic inside of a bubbler? That way, liquid would have to enter at the top of the cup, off the bottom and you don't need to mess with your tubing. Add some mesh aournd the top of the cup to filter out dry hops too.
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